I got to playtest Castles and Crusades!

[Hawkshere]

C&C might be both a floor wax AND a dessert topping (to quote classic SNL), but there's going to be a hard time managing varied expectations. If the goal is to appeal to such a broad spectrum of D&D enthusiasts, I can see why the NDAs are desired. Some of the folks who had to walk ten miles uphill in the snow both ways to play 1st edition may turn up their noses at anything that smells of 3E/d20, just on principle. On the otherhand, from a 3E/d20 perspective, creating a wide dead-band of ability scores seems very retrograde for its own sake. Are numerically lower Armor Class ratings better than higher ones? :\

I'm not dismissing the product outright. Sometimes, it's fun to let a cool product sneak up on you, and sometimes it's fun to enjoy the anticipation. I was tempted to add C&C to my anticipation list, but now I know to wait and make TLG surprise me. Similarly, I blew off being interested in d20 Conan, and as a result I got to enjoy the suprise of a really neat product AND and I didn't rush out and buy the flawed first printing.

Also, the term 'OGL' has been used a number of times in this thread to imply some kind of compatibility. I have to assume what is really meant is 'd20', since the Open Gaming Licence implies nothing about compatibility, despite its popularity for several 3E clone systems.

Finally, it's my opinion that the balance of control over the rules between the GM and players is very much a matter of taste. Increasing GM control over what is found in 3E D&D/d20 is a nice feature that will appeal to a lot of gamers, but it's not a panacea that clearly elevates the game to superiority over all competitors. Talislanta says "No Elves!" in their ads, and thats a neat way to grab attention and identify with gamers who are sick of elves, but no one pretends that there aren't plenty of players who still like elves, or that elf-free games are clearly superior to elf-ridden ones.

 

[gideon_thorne]

If C&C is going to be yet another "closed" game that eventually goes out of print, I'm less inclined to buy. If its going to be a OAD&D-in-spirit OGC (or otherwise "open") game, I'm almost definately in.[/QUOTE]

No. It isnt going to be 'closed'. Its going to be a fully published system in hard back form. Hopefully most stores will carry it.

 

[shadow]

Moderators, it's probably about time to kill this thread.

 

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Just sent my NDA to the Trolls; can't wait.
It will be interesting to contrast these preliminary speculations with the commentary made after everyone can talk freely.
Good discussion here - as always, watch out for hype....and moreso, anti-hype.

 

[cleaverthepit]

everything is cool Shadow. Mac (the law man) said nothing was said that was too much. We were planning on giving the CandC guys a sheet with the info they were allowed to talk about. Your post just upped our ante and forced me to work today (Steve may have had a relaxing weekend with yall but my weekend in Memphis was decidely less welll ralxing). So we will jus give the CandC people something to work with.

I just apologize to them for not giving them the info. It also made us do an official announcement ohh... 48 hours early???? (I think I may take wednesday off now) -- trolllord.com

I amjust glad you enjoyed the game. Todd had one of the best times he has had DMing in a looong time. He has called two times today already trying to go get a beverage later and go over some things. It was also the first full on game he ran with 'strangers' with these rules. He said he was nervous at first but that the rules flowed so smoothly during play he has no worries now.

So alls cool. Now I have to work some more. Daaaaaaangggggggg.

davis

 

[Fiffergrund]

If I'm understanding correctly, one goal of the game is to be within striking distance of the OGL rules, but to detach the various interrelated systems of d20 from one another. Does this sound accurate?

Sorry, Henry, I missed this before. My apologies.

This is somewhat accurate. I think a more accurate description would be that the game uses the parts of the OGL that make sense for what the game is trying to accomplish. Some parts are altered or expanded upon - some are discarded entirely - and some parts are new.

There was some discussion about conversions, so I thought I'd mention that I've personally seen all sorts of materials used successfully with C&C. I've used some classic material, others in my group have used some Troll Lords material. All required some alteration. Some areas were more seamless than others. The key is that if a detail was missed here or there in the conversion, there wasn't a huge impact on the playability of the scenario.

I'm converting some of my own D20 stuff to C&C for a demo game at Milwaukee Gamefest, and it's a *very* easy conversion. If I didn't need to change fundamental details of the adventure, I might be tempted to wing it.

What we've seen, albeit leaked, seem to pay homage more to Basic D&D than anything. I doubt you can comment on that, but I'll still be curious to see what the end result is. I'm just hoping what has been revealed about saving throws is not what the end result uses; An old five-throw chart does not seem as versatile as the three-throw d20 method.

Well, without having all of the details, things may seem one way and in reality be something else entirely.

I can say this: there is something specific about C&C that made my jaw drop when I realized it for the first time. It's one thing that ties many familiar principles together in a very fluid and flexible way - I think some of us are still picking through the ramifications of it all.

 

[Staffan]

If C&C is going to be yet another "closed" game that eventually goes out of print, I'm less inclined to buy. If its going to be a OAD&D-in-spirit OGC (or otherwise "open") game, I'm almost definately in.

No. It isnt going to be 'closed'. Its going to be a fully published system in hard back form. Hopefully most stores will carry it.

I think the original poster meant "closed" as in non-Open Gaming Content. That is, will it be possible for third-party publishers to do stuff for C&C without jumping through legal hoops?

 

[dsfriii]

Does anyone know yet if any third party is looking at producing products for C&C?

 

[vrykyl]

I think many people would be interested in a simpler, stripped-down version of D&D 3.5, but nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia is ridiculous. I'd like to buy "D&D 3.5 jr.", but I'm not interested in "AD&D 1e Millenium Edition".

Here at Sovereign Press we're finishing up the Dragonlance Adventure Game, a self-contained introductory product that uses what we call (in-house) "d20 Lite." It's a streamlined version of the rules designed to make it more accessible to beginners, but based so strongly on d20 3.5 that an experienced player could easily figure out how to put any levels of complexity back in that he wanted.

I'm wondering if Kenzer's Hackmaster didn't already take the market of 1st Edition players wanting nostalgia. C&C sounds interesting, so I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.

 

[diaglo]

3) The "feel" of play is very much AD&D/OD&D, even as the mechanics are very different.

in my best schultz impersonation....i know nothink..