I hate Chaotic Neutral

[Tinner]

I play a lot of CN characters.
I always took the tack that CN was more about unpredictable than psychotic.
My current PC is a CN gnome bard, and he's far from psychotic. His CN traits are that he values his personal freedom over others. "Sorry, I can't serve the king exclusively, I'm a free agent."
He is motivated more by how things affect him than how they affect others. "You can't blow up the world! Where will I keep my stuff"
And he also tends to try for the least obvious solution to problems. "Sure, we could fireball the black dragon, but I think I'm going to try to ride him!"

 

[Felon]

I have no such "problem". As I stated many posts ago, I see the problem as being with the players who fail to make motivatable characters, the symptom is the marked preference for CN characters.

What you originally stated is that CN characters don't do anything unless there's personal gain involved, and that you felt you had to bribe them into taking part in the adventure. That's much different than making an outright unmotivatable character. A merc is very motivatable.

 

[Psion]

Here's a thought: let actions define a player's alignment, rather than the other way around.

A character's good if he actually stands up for what's right. A character's evil if he constantly acts in a selfish manner without regard for the well-being of others.

Now, it's questionable whether or not that helps you out of your CN dilemna, because your problem to be less with the letters CN than the antehero attitude.

I'm thinking that you deserve a reply as sarcastic as the one you offered me, but I'll just keep it short and sweet: as I have already amplified (3x now, I think), I beleive CN is a symptom; the player attitude is the problem.

 

[frankthedm]

When a character with a CN alignment is just covering his own freedom to do as he pleases, I'd say the forefeit would be the loss of implicit freedoms that other people enjoy without pausing to think about it. Characters take it for granted that they can use a city or town's resources, but the truth is that there's an unspoken agreement between merchant and client that the latter is of 'good character'. To the rest of the world, CN equals the Seal of Untrustworthiness. A bartender wouldn't want chaotics staying in his rooms, a shop wouldn't want chaotics browsing it, even a patron would be hesitant about paying chaotics in advance for a mission. For all any of them know, the CN character could just 'change his mind'.

So, there are two strategies there. Either present the player with affronts against the Chaos that he values as a principle, or present him with the price of being chaotically aligned in a system that has an implicit regard for law.

Finaly someone gets it.

 

[Felon]

Luke Skywalker thinks for a moment...
"She's rich!"
"How rich?" Han replies.
"Listen, if you were to rescue her the reward would be..."
"What?"
"Well, more wealth than you can imagine."
"I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit."
"OK, THAT DOES IT! YOU HAVE A LOUSY ATTITUDE!" a voice booms from nowhere and everywhere at once.
Han's head explodes.

I'm thinking that you deserve a reply as sarcastic as the one you offered me, but I'll just keep it short and sweet: as I have already amplified (3x now, I think), I beleive CN is a symptom; the player attitude is the problem.

I'd like the sarcastic answer, please.

 

[Psion]

What you originally stated is that CN characters don't do anything unless there's personal gain involved, and that you felt you had to bribe them into taking part in the adventure. That's much different than making an outright unmotivatable character. A merc is very motivatable.

Sure, some coin will get a mercenary to do a service for you. But a mercenary character inherently limits my options for how a scenario is presented to the characters. A good or lawful character can be hired, but a hardcore mercenary is not conversely subject to being motivated by duty or altruism.

 

[Psion]

Luke Skywalker thinks for a moment...
"She's rich!"
"How rich?" Han replies.
"Listen, if you were to rescue her the reward would be..."
"What?"
"Well, more wealth than you can imagine."
"I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit."
"OK, THAT DOES IT! YOU HAVE A LOUSY ATTITUDE!" a voice booms from nowhere and everywhere at once.
Han's head explodes.



I'd like the sarcastic answer, please.

What the hell is your problem? Does it offend you that I don't want to run a mercenary game?

If you don't sympathize with my situation and have nothing useful to offer, by all means tarry on. This hostility is not necessary.

 

[Felon]

Sure, some coin will get a mercenary to do a service for you. But a mercenary character inherently limits my options for how a scenario is presented to the characters. A good or lawful character can be hired, but a hardcore mercenary is not conversely subject to being motivated by duty or altruism.

That's what makes them great foils for everyone else. That's why Firefly would've been a much less interesting series without Jayne, or Farscape without Rigel. A campaign without a magnificent bastard or two, where everyone just salutes the cause, just ain't worth a damn IMO.

 

[Felon]

What the hell is your problem? Does it offend you that I don't want to run a mercenary game? If you don't sympathize with my situation and have nothing useful to offer, by all means tarry on. This hostility is not necessary.

You're awfully testy tonight. That Star Wars bit was funny. How long you been up?

 

[Psion]

That's what makes them great foils for everyone else. That's why Firefly would've been a much less interesting series without Jayne, or Farscape without Rigel. A campaign without a magnificent bastard or two, where everyone just salutes the cause, just ain't worth a damn IMO.

Shows aren't games. An author can write the solution he wants. Games with a greater than 50% ratio of CN individualists run a bit like herding cats.