I hate Christmas

[WhimsyTheFae]

No I think that the analogy is quite valid since if someone gave a red cent to the Church of Scientology in my name I'd be pissed. I wouldn't care at all how much they think it would improve the world. I'd also suggest that there's enough empirical evidence that I would be correct as to make it a pretty unarguable reaction.

Now, I can certainly see why people have an issue with SR. His initial letter and defense are rather heavy with rough edges but I don't consider his point to be invalid. Giving people gifts they don't want when you know they don't want them consistently and persistently is obnoxious. Either:
A) He's misrepresenting the facts
B) His family is about as perceptive as bricks
C) His family wants to tick him off.

It certainly appears that he's tried the polite route to have them stop with the unwanted gifts. How is it in the spirit of Christmas to give someone something which you know will annoy them?

buzzard

If B or C are correct, then I can see his gripe (especially if C is correct). Unfortunately, this is a one-sided argument and we only have that to go on. It turns into a personality clash, and this personality will always clash with mine. My oldest daughter has a similar attitude, so unfortunately that is what I have to compare to. I know that she has greedy motivations when she acts that way, so I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that SR also has greedy motivations.

I also try and assume the best of intentions in gift givers (I haven't always done this, but have always bit my tongue rather than show displeasure at a gift). I guess that without knowing for sure, I don't want to start complaining when I am not out anything.

I also try and lean toward addressing situations so that all parties are happy (even if I am not). Once again, I do not always succeed at this and will "blow" when the correct buttons are pushed. I do, however, believe that it is the correct way to act. I just feel that it is better to find pleasure in a situation than to try and force a situation to change into what gives me pleasure, and I feel that this is a better lesson for my children (I set enough bad examples, that I need to set as many good ones as I can).

 

[buzzard]

Right, that's your reaction. Mine is I don't care. So the anology works specifically for you but not for me, so it fails.

I suspect there has to be something someone could do in your name like this that would push your button. I just didn't happen to pick it. If not you are far more level headed than I.

It's also his complete unwillingness to see what he's doing as anything but complete justified. I've gotten gifts I don't want berfore, I think everyone has. I do think its a bit over reaction on his part. Its just a gift.

This I will grant. I get stuff I don't like at Christmas quite often. I just ignore it. It's not like it was my own money that was wasted.

In his defense, though, people don't seem to accept that he's pretty overtly shown his irritation, and by ignoring this the family is not exactly being charitable.

buzzard

 

[Darth K'Trava]

For my part, I prefer a list of two or three things, just so I can choose one and make sure they're happy. It's ALWAYS best when I have picked up through clues earlier in the month or year what they want, because that there is the ultimate demonstration that you care enough to have been listening, and you paid enough time and attention to them to be in tune with them. In the absence of this, a gift certificate or list is the best thing, because there's being appreciative of a gift, but I'd rather what I got them be USED. If someone doesn't get enjoyment or use out of my gift, then I've not accomplished what I set out to do, because the enjoyment to me is the part where they tell me that they actually got to do something with that gift.

Or, using this, getting gift certificates is best as you have an idea of what a person wants but no clue what they already have. Both Mom and her sister have problems getting me stuff, not because they don't know my interests, but not knowing what I already HAVE.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

No, you didn't think about them. If you had, you would have gotten them something on their list. Instead, you got them soemthing you wanted them to have, and not something they actually wanted. The selfish individual in this scenario is you.

You should be grateful they're willing to get you ANYTHING at all! With your ungrateful attitude, I sure wouldn't want to get you a damn thing!

So, a $14 CD is a "fairly expensive gift". In that case, I'd hope you would cross me off your list. You are clearly too poor to afford to give gifts to begin with.

I certainly would. To my meager income, that is expensive! I'm glad I don't have to bother getting you a damn thing because I'd get a 25 cent stuffed animal from Goodwill just to piss you off! (and help out a charity in the process!! )

Being greedy gets you nowhere. Fast.

If you gave out of the goodness of your heart, you would give people things that they actually want. Not things you decided they should want.

And how would you feel if people gave you NOTHING at all on Christmas Day?!?!?! You'd feel left out, that's for sure.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so?
It came without ribbons. It came without tags.
It came without packages, boxes or bags.

And he puzzled and puzzled 'till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before.
What if Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store.
What if Christmas, perhaps, means a little bit more.

- Dr. Suess

Quoted for truthery and the fact that repetition is required.

 

[Tewligan]

But you said he was helping you fix it.

Hmmm...

Perhaps he was just saying you were too cheap to buy a new one, so he'd do it for you.

Oh, man...I can't believe that THIS is the post in this thread that I'm responding to. However, I just wanted to point out that I seem to recall SR saying that his friend was helping him to AFfix the rack to the wall, not FIX it. Not to defend his horrifying views on gifting, I just wanted to correct that particular point.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Two years in Tanzania, two years in Zaire (when Mobutu was still alive), three years in Nigeria (two coups during my time there, both bloodless), and two years in Togo (one attempted coup, not bloodless). The fact that there are destitute people out there has no bearing on what my family members can afford, or what kind of lifestyle we lead.

And no doubt hasn't made you grateful for what you DO have! You should be glad you have stuff. Christmas isn't just about the material stuff we get. It's about PEOPLE. Your family. Your friends. Those you should be more grateful for than something that someone can swipe out of your house one night.... But they cannot take your family away from you. If you'd actually spent time in Africa rather than looking up stuff about it on Google, then you'd be more appreciative.

I see that you're not.

 

[d20Dwarf]

I see that you're not.

But he has grown really attached to that pen all of a sudden.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon. Little boy blue and the man in the moon....

Quoted for truthery.

Such a poignant song that should make you wake up and think of what you're really passing on to your kids....

 

[Darth K'Trava]

It seems to me that the focus should be on what you're giving, rather than worrying so much about what you're getting. If you believe in Christmas, you've already gotten a bigger Gift than anyone is going to give you now, anyway, right? (Hope that isn't too religious, but the name of the thread does include Christmas, after all. )

And besides, the best revenge is making people feel like crap because of how much cooler, more personal, and better thought out your present to them is than their present to you.

And, Torm, that should be the best gift of all!!


Followed by family and friends.