I hate game balance!

[Cadfan]

Not too much, though. The barrier to entry is pretty low, and once you're in, you're in. Humans and Eladrin can do it from first level. One or two feats when you get one every other level isn't much of a sacrifice, especially given that feats aren't the nice cookie they were in 3.x.

(Hmmm...is the plural of 'Eladrin' 'Eladrin' or 'Eladrins'?)

Nah, there's a pretty huge difference between "anyone can do it" and "anyone who invests feats, has the appropriate ability scores, and who goes out of their way to find and learn individual rituals can do it."

Its like arguing that anyone in 3e can cast spells because you can multiclass into Wizard at level 2. Maybe true to a logician, but not true in the way the speaker intended.

 

[Wormwood]

So viva la broken! Long live the CoDzilla! Bow to the majesty all of the all-encompassing Swiss-army wizard! Huzzah for cherry picking and bonus stacking! D&D wouldn't be D&D without them.

I worked so hard repressing those memories, and you bring them crashing back.

I have to have a lie down now.

 

[Keth009]

I'm sure the poor schlub mopping the floor at the hoagie shack near me wishes he made my kind of money. We're not all equal. I cannot drive a race car, play a guitar, or do quantum physics. Maybe you cannot reprogram a router like I can.

Its that DIFFERENCE in things that make it great.

The fact that other people are poorer than you and suffer for it makes you feel great?

Well, I'm disinclined to discuss anything with you, even gaming. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Psion]

I'm not convinced you do actually!

(hate game balance)

I can understand that.

I don't hate game balance. Game balance makes the GMs job easier, and helps deal with human issues of jealousy.

I think perhaps the OP hates game balance run amok. I know I do.

 

[Eric Tolle]

I don't hate game balance. Game balance makes the GMs job easier, and helps deal with human issues of jealousy.

I think perhaps the OP hates game balance run amok. I know I do.

Are you sure it's not a case of hatiing game balance that prevents you from making an overpowering character? One that dominates the game at everyone else's expense? Because I got the feeling that's what the OP wanted.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I think perhaps the OP hates game balance run amok. I know I do.

I agree there is a point where game balance becomes stifling. The object is to operate in that middle ground where things aren't completely unbalanced yet the balance isn't so strict it reduces the options.

With 4e it feels like they turned game balance into a straight-jacket and got rid of many of my favorite character concepts in the name of game balance my precious.

 

[Remathilis]

Are you sure it's not a case of hatiing game balance that prevents you from making an overpowering character? One that dominates the game at everyone else's expense? Because I got the feeling that's what the OP wanted.

I have noticed a number of arguments about game balance (esp regarding 4e) come down to "wizards got nerfed because they cannot effectively break the game anymore" (followed closely behind is "clerics are no longer worth playing because they don't break the game AND fight well while doing it")

 

[Psion]

Are you sure it's not a case of hatiing game balance that prevents you from making an overpowering character? One that dominates the game at everyone else's expense? Because I got the feeling that's what the OP wanted.

I dunno. I can see how one paragraph in the OP can be taken that way, but when you put it that way, it does sound a bit hostile and I'm not so sure and wonder if you are strawmanning.

I don't take it that way. Because, well, I understand it from a different angle that the poster may or may not agree with. I'll let the OP declare that for himself. But as for me, I don't think the game should feature characters that are blatantly unbalanced, but I do find that the way 4e achieved balance is not to my liking. But that's an except for a rant I have stewing right now and I'm not sure I want to bring that rant forth until it's fully formed.

 

[Clavis]

So, I bought the 4E books. I read them. I read a lot of posts here on enworld, reading about others opinions and helping to solidify my own.

And heres the deal.

I HATE GAME BALANCE!

I have always abhorred game balance. It made no sense. I loved the fact a fighter could kick the snot out of a mage at melee, and a mage could destroy a fighter with a spell, and a ranger could kill both of them from 100 yards away.

And the reason I hate 4E is game balance. It is SO balanced, they spent so much time ensuring that everything is equal, no one class has any leg up on any other class, or even a perceived leg up, so that everyone would be equal.

Know what happens when EVERYONE is special? Yeah, you got it.

I have a 4 year old who will soon be wanting to play soccer or little leauge, and it sickens me that theres not a single league around here for him to play in where at the end of the season EVERYONE gets a trophy. You're all winners! No one is a loser! YOU are special!

Oh, wait, I am digressing, we're talking about a game...

When everyone's special, what makes you so damn special? Everyone wants to feel needed. Everyone wants to be special. How awesome is it for the rogue to be able to disarm the trap that's a party roadblock? How awesome is it to be the fighter and you're the only one that can hit the dragon? What about the mage who's capable of teleporting the party across the chasm? The priest who can raise the dead?

Now, in 4E, you're all special! Everyone can cast spells, um, rituals! Everyone gets a XXX power at YYY level! And they all pretty much do the same thing... damage this guy and get this effect! Rangers dont track anymore, mages cannot phantasmal killer anything anymore, and bards, well, bards ARENT anymore

I dunno. I've always been a fan of defined class roles. I've also been a fan of being able to blur and bend those roles if need be. And above all else, I've been a fan of a character being able to do somethign NO ONE else can. If that means the mage is all-powerful at 18th level, then so be it.

I'm a network admin and I make decent money. I'm not a millionaire, and I wish I were. I'm sure the poor schlub mopping the floor at the hoagie shack near me wishes he made my kind of money. We're not all equal. I cannot drive a race car, play a guitar, or do quantum physics. Maybe you cannot reprogram a router like I can.

Its that DIFFERENCE in things that make it great.

Something about how all the classes feel so damn similar to me... it irks me. Everyone is special. Everyone can kick ass.

And mechanically, what you're capable of accomplishing in the game, is pretty much the same as what I can.

I now invite the 4E lovers here to tell me that my opinion is wrong. Show me why game balance is necessary, because, as you know better than I do, my opinion is not correct!

Speak the words, brother! Amen!

 

[Shining Dragon]

I HATE GAME BALANCE!

If you hate game balance that much just play a 1st level character in a game where everyone else is playing a 10th level character. Surely you would love the experience...?