I hate Tolkien: suggest a fantasy setting.

[Storyteller01]

Wow! That was a lot of responses in a short time. I think I'll just clarify a little bit:

I want to keep the standard fantasy races intact, but get rid of the stereotypes. I like Eberron for this, though I'm not so sure that I'd like to try and fit in all the new races they offer. I suppose I could just leave them out, and as long as I had players that were new to the setting, it shouldn't offend anyone.

I want low magic, and rare magic. I like Hyborea for this, but that's a humans-only setting.

I want true grit, and an abandonment of the alignment system. Black Company seems to fit the bill there.

I am in the process of creating my own setting, but I don't want it bare-bones. I want it to have flesh, and blood, and meat! I'm actually asking about settings on these boards so I can get a variety of sources to pilfer material from. I'm already planning on using Eberron's gnomes and orcs. The rest of it, I'm not sure about.

I should have read a bit futher...

I'll second Iron Kingdoms. Nothing says 'AAAAARRGGHH!!!' like the wrath of Menoth killing his own cleric and the unbeliever he tried to heal. And good luck finding a Res spell.

Magic isn't so much rare as temporary and tightly controlled.. Base magic items require batteries. Since the magi-tech is so ingrained in the defense and war effort, those capable of casting or making items are under lock down.

 

[Ibram]

Does it have to be d20? Warhammer 40k is coming out with an RPG fairly soon. Doesn't get much grittier.

Warhammer RPG is out now, and is very much an un-Tolkien game. It has the classic races (Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Orcs, ect...) but they a very different feel. Elves are arrogant beings who see themselves as above everyone else. Dwarves are so obsessed with honor that they will go to war centuries later to avenge a loss (and persue their vengence regardless of who it hurts).

 

[AbeTheGnome]

I've also stolen a few ideas from WFRP. High elves, Dark Elves (sans the piracy), and Slayer dwarves, plus a few of the gods (Kaine and Nergal, specifically).

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I loathe Tolkien's setting and the way his conventions have dominated fantasy and fantasy roleplaying for thirty years, and I love Eberron for all the ways it takes a different, contemporary approach to the genre.

I'm sorry, but I believe you're a little misguided on your statement. At least, I conclude you're judging Tolkien's role on the formation of the contemporary view of fantasy inferior to what it actually is.

For Example, the figure that Tolkien gave to elves is more than good-aligned humanoids of archery and magic living in forests. In D&D, I believe Dark Sun elves are the only ones which play with a really different concept, but you'll still see a lot of Tolkien's influence there.

Keeping with the statement above, I believe Eberron's vision of elves to be very in line with Tolkien's elves. Pointy-ear dudes of magic and swordplay? Check. Ancient, proud, and noble? Check. I’d say Fëanor would be proud of those Valenar warriors, and they would equally rejoice in the figure of an ancestor like him.

The same cannot be said about Halflings though, but anyway, D&D Halflings are already very distant of their hobbit parents, and Eberron doesn’t present such a great jump in regard to this, in my opinion. Dark Sun already had barbarian Halflings like a decade before…

I could continue talking about the figure of Oalian in Eldeen Reaches, or how the first line on the dwarven race describes them as natural miners and smiths (not Tolkien’s creation, by the way, but totally in line with his vision), but I hope I was able to make a point here.

Despite loathing the Middle-Earth, you’re playing a campaign setting that is strongly influenced by Tolkien’s vision of fantasy, and the domain that his conventions had in fantasy in the last thirty years are essential for you to have Eberron today.

Cheers,

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I want to keep the standard fantasy races intact, but get rid of the stereotypes. I like Eberron for this, though I'm not so sure that I'd like to try and fit in all the new races they offer. I suppose I could just leave them out, and as long as I had players that were new to the setting, it shouldn't offend anyone.

That's true. There's no reason why anyone should have to play a warforged, changeling, kalashtar, or shifter in Eberron. There's plenty of "new" to go around amongst the traditional races.

I want low magic, and rare magic. I like Hyborea for this, but that's a humans-only setting.

With Eberron the key is "wide magic", not "high magic". High-level characters of any stripe, spellcasters included, are extremely rare. Yet, on the other hand, there are lots of magical things in the world . . . most of them, though, are everyday conveniences or fuel the larger-scale magical elements in the setting, like airships.

There are very few people throwing fireball spells around, but on the other hand major city streets are lit with lanterns powered by continual flame, and House Cannith did create an entire race of sentient living constructs.

I want true grit, and an abandonment of the alignment system. Black Company seems to fit the bill there.

Because Eberron uses the full core rules of D&D, it doesn't abandon the alignment system; it does, however, change the rules to institute more shades of grey. While some alignment restrictions on classes still apply (especially to paladins, for the sake of contrast), there are some differences . . . most notably, clerics are not required to share an alignment with their deity or religion as long as they genuinely believe that their actions are in harmony with the faith.

This is how you get lawful evil servants of the lawful good Church of the Silver Flame, who stray into evil in their fanatical pursuit of wrongdoing yet remain empowered by the Silver Flame because they genuinely maintain their faith; they're just deeply misguided. Of course, telling the difference between these lost sheep (if you can call torturers that) and those who truly serve demons can be difficult . . . detect evil doesn't solve the problem.

 

[Storyteller01]

Warhammer RPG is out now, and is very much an un-Tolkien game. It has the classic races (Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Orcs, ect...) but they a very different feel. Elves are arrogant beings who see themselves as above everyone else. Dwarves are so obsessed with honor that they will go to war centuries later to avenge a loss (and persue their vengence regardless of who it hurts).

Hey! I forgot Warhammer had a fantasy version.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I'm sorry, but I believe you're a little misguided on your statement. At least, I conclude you're judging Tolkien's role on the formation of the contemporary view of fantasy inferior to what it actually is.

I think that would be hard, considering how little influence Tolkien has on what I actually think contemporary fantasy, as a genre, actually is.

Eberron's not really in line with what I think of as true contemporary fantasy, in the literary sense. It's just got the right attitude, applied to the conventions of D&D.

For Example, the figure that Tolkien gave to elves is more than good-aligned humanoids of archery and magic living in forests. In D&D, I believe Dark Sun elves are the only ones which play with a really different concept, but you'll still see a lot of Tolkien's influence there.

Keeping with the statement above, I believe Eberron's vision of elves to be very in line with Tolkien's elves. Pointy-ear dudes of magic and swordplay? Check. Ancient, proud, and noble? Check. I’d say Fëanor would be proud of those Valenar warriors, and they would equally rejoice in the figure of an ancestor like him.

Eberron's elves are not perfected humans, and that right there is all the difference you need between Tolkien's elves and Eberron's.

Eberron's elves are only Tolkien's inasmuch as D&D's elves are Tolkien's, but they go in a wholly different direction. They're "pointy-ear dudes of magic and swordplay" because of Tolkien, but gee, that's about the only thing they have in common. They're not immortal, they're not forest-dwellers, they're not a lot of things that Tolkien's elves are.

Despite loathing the Middle-Earth, you’re playing a campaign setting that is strongly influenced by Tolkien’s vision of fantasy, and the domain that his conventions had in fantasy in the last thirty years are essential for you to have Eberron today.

I agree. I know for a fact that Keith Baker is fond of The Lord of the Rings. Even if he wasn't, D&D itself would provide all the Tolkienesque grounding one would need.

The fact remains that Eberron is different enough that no significant common ground exists between the perfected humans of Tolkien's work and the various elven cultures of Eberron - any more than there was between Tolkien's elves and the desert nomads of Athas.

In a larger sense, the nature of elves, orcs, dwarves, and halflings isn't even the biggest problem I have with Middle-Earth. I think it's a pretty damn repulsive cosmology.

 

[Aramax]

I double Or tripple) the Jack Vance "Dying Earth" stuff.Very fantasy yet very different

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

Greyhawk.

Evil elf: Keak
Dwarvf who doesn't wear beard: Cobb Darg (according to some reports)
Grit: Iuz, Scarlet Brotherhood, Turrosh Mak, Great Kingdom of Northern Aerdi, United Kingdom of Ahlissa, Iggwilv, Fraz 'urb Lu
Anti-Heroes: Warduke, Evard

That's just off the top of my head. Greyhawk is a pretty non-Tolkienesque setting. The similarities end with the fact that it has goblins, dwarves, elves, halflings, and dragons. Orcs in Greyhawk are not irrevocably evil, they just tend to be savage. Dwarves are merchants, and greedy ones at that. Elves are reclusive and don't get involved in wars, especially wars against great evils like Iuz (see Celene). There are assassins everywhere (Scarlet Brotherhood). Iuz as a simile for Sauron is the closest thing I can think of, but Iuz is beyond Sauron. He is an actual god on his plane. And there is no one ring that can defeat him. In fact, the gods themselves don't know how to defeat him. Wizards are plentiful (although not necessarily common) and there are schools of magic in every major city whereas in Middle Earth they are basically all outsiders. Druids are all connected through the Old Faith.

I don't see how that resembles Tolkien much at all. But if you want to do away with pretty much EVERYTHING that is iconic to D&D except the actual dungeon and the dragon, then go with MC's Arcana Evolved. The only thing it retains is humans.

[Politician Voice]My name is Son_of_Thunder and I endorse this statement[\Politician Voice]. Really, EGG patterned Greyhawk after Conan and Elric more than Tolkien. It's a good fit.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Greyhawk would be a very much more interesting setting if Gygax hadn't accepted Arneson's suggestion that they include Tolkien's races to appeal to fans of The Lord of the Rings.

On the other hand, would D&D have been as successful? Probably not.