D&D 5E I just don't see why they even bothered with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

[Mercule]

Let me ask this....

Does the book provide enough information that it could "hook" a new player or DM and make them hungry for more?

WotC has made it quite clear that they have no intent of publishing a complete setting book for settings that are well detailed in one or more prior editions. The two big objections to that are 1) new players don't even know these settings exist or that they could look in previous editions and 2) crunch needs conversion.

This book could address issue #1 if it contains just enough information to give a basic feel for the Realms where players and DMs are able to partake in the "big rocks" of what makes the setting interesting without feeling burdened by hundreds, if not thousands of pages of minutia. For a brand new D&D player, who just wants to casually enjoy generic fantasy and not have to work hard at setting (home brew or published), this might be all they ever need. As they "grow" in the game, they may build their own world or they may look into additional source material. With the Internet, it shouldn't be hard for a new player to find out about, say, the 3.5 FRCS book in a matter of minutes, once they know to look for it.

Because FR is so generic, there isn't much crunch that needs to be converted for the setting to be playable. Most of the legacy stuff is either splat-book worthy or highly specialized; both of those fall into the stuff that isn't likely to get updated. A setting like Eberron has four additional races, a new class, and the Dragonmarks, which are pretty much necessary to really play the setting. Dark Sun has additional races and (sub) classes. If the races and classes chapters of the SCAG are just filler for what could be a much richer format, it falls into a very clear, very purposeful type of book: Setting Gateway.

As much as I'd like to have a fully updated, self-contained setting book for Eberron, I could live with a SCAG-like book. It gives me what I actually need to play. It makes the setting visible to new players and gives the opportunity for something other than FR to be in the conversation. And... it's (presumably) affordable for WotC to produce, which means it might actually happen. Don't let great be the enemy of good.

WotC could turn out one of these every year with minimal risk. I'd love to see that and would have zero problems buying a Setting Gateway book for Eberron, Dark Sun, and Ravenloft. Dragonlance, Birthright, and Council of Wyrms go on a "probably buy" list. I'd even look at Planescape and Spelljammer, both of which I've always found weird. Heck. I've hated the Realms with an almost absurd passion since about 1990, and I'd even consider picking up SCAG if I knew it was part of a series.

Since I don't know that it's part of a series and my ban on buying anything on the Realms still stands, I can't tell you whether the book actually fills that role, but it sure sounds like it does.

 

[pukunui]

I want to know more about the Sundering and an explanation for all the changes. All we have is basically the Sundering happened and here are the changes. There are no explanations for anything.

There is an explanation in the book, on page 16: "Thousands of years after the rise of the great elven nations, hundreds of high elf mages united to cast a spell intended to create a glorious homeland for their race. The spell succeeded, but it rippled backward and forward in time ..." The most recent Sundering is that forward-facing ripple from the first Sundering.

That being said, you can also find out more about the Sundering in the various Sundering adventures. From Legacy of the Crystal Shard:

The end of the Era of Upheaval is nigh!

The world of the Forgotten Realms setting has endured one catastrophe after another for the past century, from the Time of Troubles through the Spellplague. Again and again, upheaval has reshaped the pantheon, overthrown nations and rules, and altered the landscape. Now, the world is being shaken and reshaped again - for the last time.

The gods are thrown into chaos at the promise of a new reckoning of the pantheon, and they scramble and grasp at power in hopes of cementing their positions of authority. Their mortal agents in the world, the Chosen, are charged with carrying out their will in every aspect of life.

The Spellplague, the magical catastrophe that dramatically reshaped the world, has come to an end. The Weave of magic is rewoven, and many lingering effects of twisted magic fade. The intermingling of worlds brought by the Spellplague comes to an end, leaving Toril looking much as it did before.

Dead in Thay changes that last sentence to: "The intermingling of worlds brought about by the Spellplague also comes to an end, as what belongs to Abeir returns to Abeir, leaving the Forgotten Realms looking much as it did before."

So basically: It's an after-effect from an epic spell that some elven mages cast millennia ago, which Ao the Overgod takes as an opportunity to do some tidying up.

As for why you didn't get a more behind-the-scenes explanation? Because that wouldn't have been in keeping with the player-oriented style of the book. Most of the citizens of Faerûn aren't going to know why the Sundering happened. Besides - by not providing a concrete answer, WotC is leaving up to individual DMs to come up with their own explanations.

I also want more lore and detail of the current comings and goings of certain kingdoms and areas. I mean we have several RSE's in a matter of 100 years and no clear explanation as to what has taken place.

Are you not able to come up with that lore yourself?

I'd just like to say that I've got the 1e grey box, the 2e gold box, the 3e FRCS, and the 4e FRCG, and so far I'm finding the SCAG to be a useful addition to that collection. Would I have liked for there to be more in it? Of course, but I'm happy enough with what we did get. And I like that it leaves me with plenty of wiggle room to add my own details. It feels more like the 1e Realms, *before* there was a ton of detail for every little nook and cranny of the Realms.

Plus, according to Nathan Stewart (WotC's Director of D&D), WotC will be sticking with the Forgotten Realms "for the foreseeable future", so this is not likely to be the *only* FR sourcebook we get. Although, that being said, Chris Perkins did tease us with that "It may not be in book form; it may be like nothing you've seen before" comment in an interview a while back, so who knows really (other than the guys at WotC, of course)?


EDIT: I'd just like to point out the sidebar on page 44. It reads:

Note to the DM: Making the Realms Yours
The information in this chapter is intentionally nonspecific with respect to threats, monsters, and statistics. While you can use these details to flavor your descriptions of the towns and cities your players might visit, you should in no way consider these pieces of narration definitive. They're meant to provide touchstones, not to constrain your players to a narrow conception of the world.

You might decide to change some of the details, either to surprise your players or to account for events that have transpired since they obtained the information herein. You're encouraged to take what's presented her and make it, and the Forgotten Realms, your own.

I think it's fair to say that this is going to be WotC's approach going forward. They're *not* going to revisit every last jot and tiddle that's been made about the Realms over the past 30 years. They don't want to drown people in lore. They want to provide enough info that people can get stuck in and start filling in the details themselves. The SCAG is meant to be a springboard, not an encyclopedia. And I think it achieves that goal just fine.

 

[Mirtek]

Do the Sundering novels not go into that? I haven't read them, but au would have thought so.

Some do, some show even less, being all about the perspective of mere mortals understanding even less than the readers of the greater picture

Dead in Thay changes that last sentence to: "The intermingling of worlds brought about by the Spellplague also comes to an end, as what belongs to Abeir returns to Abeir, leaving the Forgotten Realms looking much as it did before."

Which has already been rendered moot as they decided to keep some parts of Abeir after all

 

[pukunui]

Which has already been rendered moot as they decided to keep some parts of Abeir after all

Only sort of. Tymanther didn't go back to Abeir, it got Unther put back on top of it, and Airspur is still floating in the sky. One exception doesn't break the rule.

 

[DEFCON 1]

That's funny... I look at the book and can absolutely see why WotC published it.

 

[Remathilis]

Who is this book for, you ask?

Me.

I'm someone who really only wants to use the Forgotten Realms as a backdrop for whatever adventures I (and WotC) plan to run there. I don't give a fig about the Spellplague (a terrible idea) and all I need to know of the Sundering is "Everything is back to how it was, with a few stragglers left over". I'm not too concerned about how Myrkul is back, or what's going on with Amaunator/Lathander, or where Lantan was or any of that stuff.

I want a book I can hand to my players when they ask who Shar is, what Baldur's Gate is like, or what a Red Wizard is. Its enough background material that I can flesh out stuff outside whatever AP I want to run, give me a few adventure ideas, an fill in a PCs background. Also, I got some useful crunch with it.

I could use a similar book for Eberron, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dragonlance, etc.

 

[pukunui]

That's funny... I look at the book and can absolutely see why WotC published it.

Same here.

As it says on the product page: "While the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide is a valuable resource for Dungeon Masters, it was crafted with players and their characters foremost in mind." I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This is a player's guide, not a campaign setting book. Previous player's guides have had a mix of basic setting info and new character options. This book is no different.


Let's also look at the marketing for it: Spice Up Your Story.

*Does the book provide "players and Dungeon Masters [with] material for creating vibrant fantasy stories along the Sword Coast"? Yes, it does.

*Does the book offer "new subclass options ... for many of the classes presented in the Player's Handbook, as well as new subraces and backgrounds specific to the Forgotten Realms"? Yes, it does.

*Does the book help you discover "the current state of the Forgotten Realms after the Spellplague and the second Sundering"? Yes, it does.

*Does the book enable you to make characters "for use with the Out of the Abyss adventure and fight back the influence of the demon lords in the Underdark below the Sword Coast"? Yes, although not specifically.

*Does the book provide "background behind locations, such as Luskan and Gracklstugh, feature in the upcoming digital RPG, Sword Coast Legends"? Yes to Luskan, although Out of the Abyss covers Gracklstugh in much greater detail.

*Will Dungeon Masters "relish a book full of mysterious locations and story hooks to keep players adventuring on the Sword Coast for years to come"? I'd certainly like to think so, but it seems like some DMs want WotC to do all the work for them.

 

[jgsugden]

Fluff and Crunch.

Fluff: I'd rather they give us a broad Forgotten Realms product than a region specific one. Set the stage for the FR, and then consider releasing a narrower book to focus on a region. Personally, I'd rather they tailored an event that causes time in the FRs to revert back to the time of the initial release of the original product back in the 80s with key changes (Key characters remembering the events that transpired prior to the reset, Cyric hiding in the background, etc...) I just think they've lost those essential Realms elements that people liked by moving so far into the future.

Crunch: Not much in there that matters, and certainly not enough to justify the cost of the book by itself. If there is a free online guide with the crunch, like there was for EE, I don't think this matters at all.

 

[pukunui]

Personally, I'd rather they tailored an event that causes time in the FRs to revert back to the time of the initial release of the original product back in the 80s with key changes (Key characters remembering the events that transpired prior to the reset, Cyric hiding in the background, etc...) I just think they've lost those essential Realms elements that people liked by moving so far into the future.

What's stopping you from just using the grey box with the 5e ruleset?

Besides, a reset like that would alienate all those fans who actually like the changes that were made through the 2e, 3e, and 4e eras. Not to mention angering heavyweights like RA Salvatore, who want to keep the timeline chugging along for their novels. (Bob supposedly wasn't happy with 4e's 100-year time jump; I'd bet he'd be even unhappier with a "let's just go back to the very beginning" reboot, even if Drizzt et al did get to remember all that they'd done.)

 

[Psikerlord#]

I haven't kept track of the realms for a few years, but after all the abeir stuff etc, it seems to me this new book is mostly for player, and is a simple "reset" of the realms pre-abeir and 4e. It's for new players or folks who want a new slate. I think.

More importantly, go read Primeval Thule ;D