I just got D20 Future and I love it! [hugs his copy]

[JEL]

I haven't read any Star Frontiers material in years, but I do clearly remember equipment specially designed for Vrusk hands. IIRC, the pistols had a sort of ball-shaped grip.

Nothing in the rules about it, other than a couple of illustrations showing Vrusk holding ball gripped pistols. There's also an illustration of one using a normal grip. Really they shouldn't have any problem with normal weapons, nor should humans (or Yazarians) have any problems with using a ball grip. The armor bit does make sense as it would for drasalites or Yazarians (the gliding flap would get in the way of human armor), so the rule should apply to any race really.

Other points of difference (besides the ones trancejeremy mentions) include giving Drasalites and Vrusk dark vision (huh?). Vrusk losing their comprehension ability (a bonus to diplomacy and sense motive would have been fine here). Vrusk carapice having value as armor. And the Yazarian life enemy being reduced to a combat ability (in the SF game it was a purely role playing note and it included an example of a Yazarian scientist making a disease his life enemy).

 

[Malacoda]

apparently there are rules for psionics in d20 Modern, which is required to make use of d20 Future.

Clever.

why bother reprinting that information?

I don't want them to reprint the psi rules from Modern. I want them to expand on them in a sci-fi-appropriate manner, and address their role in a futuristic setting.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

As far as I can see there is no way to make medium-size powered armour, a la Bubblegum Crisis.

Check out the equipment section. Medium powered armor isn't really mecha, even if it looks like mecha.

They appearently couldn't find room for addressing psionics in a sci-fi setting.

Yeah, they had to cut it. It's probably for the best; playtesting psionics (and for that matter, any other kind of FX) takes about three times longer than playtesting anything else.

If they DO they'd better darned well publish Dark*Matter again, too.

I'd like to see it too, but as a Modern supplement, not a Future supplement.

 

[RodneyThompson]

Regarding the alien races, I didn't do those sections so I cannot comment on the discrepancies. I was simply objecting (on behalf of the authors that did do those sections) to the implications of plagiarism.

Regarding the Mecha rules, I can see both sides of the argument, but if you want "mecha-as-purely-vehicle" you can actually use the vehicle rules with the mecha weapons just as easily, whereas the mecha in the book take more of a "mecha as an extension of the pilot" POV. Also, if you want Medium-size armor like Bubblegum Crisis, you should use the medium armor and the gadget system. I specifically had things like that in mind when I designed the gadget system.

 

[Malacoda]

Check out the equipment section. Medium powered armor isn't really mecha, even if it looks like mecha.

The closest thing to powered armour I can find is the PL8 Boost Armour, which is not quite what I consider powered armour. Plus, there is already a surprising amount of headway being made on physically enhancing powered exoskeletons, so I am not sure why you need to wait until PL8 to get one.

I do admit I may have missed something, though.

Yeah, they had to cut it. It's probably for the best; playtesting psionics (and for that matter, any other kind of FX) takes about three times longer than playtesting anything else.

That would have been OK with me. I don't consider psi a requirement for a sci-fi campaign, but I do consider it to be an important option in a toolkit approach. More so than mutant powers.

 

[Tom Cashel]

I was rude and I apologize. I feel my complaint still stands, but how I voiced it was out of line. I'm sorry about that, Moradin. And again, I am not accusing you of plagiarism or even implying it.

(Note to self: don't come home drunk and start posting. Ever.)

(Reply from self: Ain't gonna happen.)

Well, I was also rude, JEL, and I apologize for that.

I just feel like condemning the whole book on the basis of a four-page campaign outline is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Although I haven't seen the book yet (c'mon, birthday list! go, birthday list!), I'd be willing to bet that minor tweaks--or even character creation focused on that goal--would fix what's "wrong" with the Star Frontiers races.

Like why would I have bought Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book when I have the previous 1st and 2nd edition boxed sets?

Touché. (hangs head in similar shame)

Maybe WotC should listen to you, Tom Cashel, and NOT publish a d20 Future's Star*Drive Campaign Setting book (my prediction).

Well, that's where we part ways.

I don't know what the Star*Drive Campaign Setting is, but I don't think anyone should listen to Tom Cashel.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The closest thing to powered armour I can find is the PL8 Boost Armour, which is not quite what I consider powered armour. Plus, there is already a surprising amount of headway being made on physically enhancing powered exoskeletons, so I am not sure why you need to wait until PL8 to get one.

I do admit I may have missed something, though.

In the preview, they said there would be powered armor, and since in StarDrive there's PL 6 and 7 powered armor, I figured it would be there.

Moridin cleared the record, however, on this; use the Gadget system. So, what is used to balance the Gadget system?

That would have been OK with me. I don't consider psi a requirement for a sci-fi campaign, but I do consider it to be an important option in a toolkit approach. More so than mutant powers.

I would disagree I'm a big fan of psionics, but I know a lot of people aren't and, as I've said, it's really hard to balance FX in D20 Modern.

Besides, if they made room for psionics, they'd have to make room for magical FX, because of the Dark Heart of Space setting, and the last thing I want to see in a Future book is magic.

 

[Malacoda]

Regarding the Mecha rules, I can see both sides of the argument, but if you want "mecha-as-purely-vehicle" you can actually use the vehicle rules with the mecha weapons just as easily, whereas the mecha in the book take more of a "mecha as an extension of the pilot" POV.

I don't have a problem with this point of view. It is actually much closer to my own preferences when it comes to mecha. I prefer Robotech over Battletech. But I still think the idea that giant mechs are stronger if the pilot is stronger is goofy.

Also, if you want Medium-size armor like Bubblegum Crisis, you should use the medium armor and the gadget system. I specifically had things like that in mind when I designed the gadget system.

Will the gagdet system allow me to make powered armour suits that are more heavily armoured, can lift small cars, or can fly? (or at least make greatly boosted jumps, a la Starship Troopers).

If so, then I concede that it is sufficient.

 

[Malacoda]

In the preview, they said there would be powered armor, and since in StarDrive there's PL 6 and 7 powered armor, I figured it would be there. Moridin cleared the record, however, on this; use the Gadget system. So, what is used to balance the Gadget system?

I looked over the gagdet system, and didn't find it to be very useful for powered armour. Maybe I missed something.

I would disagree I'm a big fan of psionics, but I know a lot of people aren't and, as I've said, it's really hard to balance FX in D20 Modern.

You disagree that they should have waited, or do you disagree that it is an important part of a sci-fi toolkit approach? Or that mutant powers are more relavent?

While psi is not typically part of the harder sci-fi, it is very common in "softer" sci-fi, and especially sci-fi TV, such as Trek or B5. I don't see how anyone can say psionics are not sci-fi relavent.

Besides, if they made room for psionics, they'd have to make room for magical FX, because of the Dark Heart of Space setting...

This is only true if the primary purpose of the rest of d20 Future is to support the sample settings.

 

[Von Ether]

Just to be clear, here since I don't have the book, yet.

You guys are making sound like there are no extra psionic powers or classes in d20 Future? Is that correct?

... as for the need to "balance" out any extra psionics with extra magic for Science Fantasy games (40k. Mutant Chronicles, etc). I personaly think that's like throwing a bucket of water into the ocean. The basic d20 Modern book has like twice as many spells compred to psionic powers, never mind that magic runs off off one stat, while psionics needs several stats for a non-specialist.

If you include the Arcana stuff from the SRD, psionics lags behind a lot! If anything, psionics should have a noticiable presence in d20 Future just to play catch up.