I killed our campaign

[Barendd Nobeard]

Well, my group is currently going through the World's Largest Dungeon. Or, more accurately, we were until Monday night at about 11:00 p.m.

We were ninth level. We had fun early in the WLD, but lately it just wasn't as fun. The DM couldn't kill us with the MAW (Module As Written), so he added encounters. We're talking an advanced chimera with 659 hit points. We all survived.

So, we get to this role-playing encounter (instead of a combat encounter). We role-play it. We make a deal with this guy who will make us some magic items. We give him the money and materials for the first item. Then, all of a sudden, one of the players tries to have this NPC prove the NPC can cast spells. The NPC can't (though the DM has him role play reasons he won't cast spells in front of us). So, now this player (note, not a PC but a player) has "proven" the NPC can't cast spells, therefore he's lying. Forget the fact that the NPC had a +39 Bluff (or something like that). I thought it was a great encounter--he lied, we'll get mad, and deal with it later. Neat little role play encounter.

Well, I got a little mad. First, the player's PC doesn't have the INT to have this encounter. I bring it up, calmly. His reponse: "but so-and-so's character does." I let that drop, because that's an entirely different problem (him running everyone's PCs).

So, then I went "petite ballistic." I asked why we were even bothering to play any more. I stated (rather loudly and angrily, unfortunately) that the combats don't threaten us (and even if they did, we've got two ninth level clerics so we can always Raise Dead). This is a known issue with this party--we're too effective for combats to be challenging. And then I get to the heart of my argument: when the DM gives us a role-play encounter, you just talk your way out of it. Not as a PC, but as a player. (Implying, but not directly stating, that he totally meta-games and rules-lawyers everything until he gets his way*).

The tirade over, we continue. And 10 minutes later, he says, "Kent's right. Why are we playing this?"

We decided to stop playing WLD. We're going to play Call of Cthulhu next. I'm running it, starting in two weeks.

Thanks for listening to my rant/eulogy.




*latest example: In the WLD game, we have a bowl of water elemental summoning. You get better monsters with salt water. He claims we should be able to put a piece of food (e.g., beef jerky) in the water and have salt water (since the jerky is salty) and, thus, be able to conjure a much stronger elemental. The DM said no. I (player of the PC with the bowl) said no. And he whined so much that the DM finally said, "Yes" (just to shut him up). But I still refused to do it.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

The jerky in the bowl thing is just plain silly. I know we're talking about a game where we pretend to be magic elves and all, but that's really stretching things.

I'm sorry your game ended badly.

 

[Catavarie]

Sounds to me as if Meta-thinking is the problem, its hard to not do this but if it is accomplished it can make for much better experience for everyone.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Why will this type of thinking change in Call of Cthulhu? Is it because of the high powered aspect?

 

[Enkhidu]

Play Paranoia, where the first rule of the game is to "Kill the b*stards." Seriously. It'll do everyone some good as meta-game thinking has immediate in game penalties, and give everyone a laugh while it happens.

 

[Narfellus]

I don't see how 9th level characters can kill a 659 hp advanced chimera without losing anyone. If things like that are happening on a regular basis then there's a problem with game balance. I don't see why that same problem won't easily follow into your next game system, such as coup de gracing Dagon.

 

[Seeten]

I have one of these idiots in my group. He drives me loopy.

 

[gizmo33]

If DnD were more mainstream, I'd like to get a job as a role-playing therapist. It would go something like this:

...my group is currently going through the World's Largest Dungeon...

Uhuh.

...We're talking an advanced chimera with 659 hit points. We all survived.

Uhuh. And how did that make you feel?

...Well, I got a little mad. First, the player's PC doesn't have the INT to have this encounter.

Uhuh. So you believe that a person's PC should only do things based on their INT scores. Do you believe there a table somewhere that you can use to cross-reference all possible actions against INT scores?

...So, then I went "petite ballistic."

Uhuh. I see.

...I asked why we were even bothering to play any more.

Well, the question I would ask is why are *you* playing? Tell me about your parents. How do they feel about easy combats with monsters?

...when the DM gives us a role-play encounter, you just talk your way out of it. Not as a PC, but as a player. (Implying, but not directly stating, that he totally meta-games and rules-lawyers everything until he gets his way*).

Was the instance of having the NPC demonstrate spell use a case of metagaming? Is that what you mean? So in the campaign spell use is necessary for magic item creation? Maybe the DM tells you guys too much stuff that you shouldn't know about.
And a bluff check. Do you believe that if I roll a bluff against a PCs sense motive that I should have that PC do whatever I want? That's a tough call, maybe people are happier when they get to play their characters. I know it's a little metagamey, but it's hard to imagine sitting down to play DnD and having my INT score and Sense Motive completely determine my character actions throughout the course of the game. Perhaps a little leniency on the DM in this area is in order.

...We decided to stop playing WLD. We're going to play Call of Cthulhu next. I'm running it, starting in two weeks.

Cool. Isn't that game kinda deadly? I only played once and I felt like a sort of "dungeon in reverse" where my character was the encounter area and the slimy alien was the adventurer. I hope it got a lot of Xp for eating my scientist. I'd like to think that somewhere the alien is building a stronghold and attracting followers.

...Thanks for listening to my rant/eulogy.

Anything for a fellow gamer. We've all been there. Sometimes you just have to DM if you want things to improve, but it sounds like you already know that. See you next week.

...*latest example: In the WLD game, we have a bowl of water elemental summoning. You get better monsters with salt water. He claims we should be able to put a piece of food (e.g., beef jerky) in the water and have salt water (since the jerky is salty) and, thus, be able to conjure a much stronger elemental. The DM said no. I (player of the PC with the bowl) said no. And he whined so much that the DM finally said, "Yes" (just to shut him up). But I still refused to do it.

Sounds like a somewhat bad design on a magic item colliding with a wishy-washy DM. What about forehead persperation. My character would probably be pretty sweaty from fighting monsters. Shouldn't be hard to add *some* salt. How much salt does it take to make salt water? What about beef bullion cubes? Does the beef flavor from the jerky do something to the elemental?

 

[DaveMage]

Thanks for listening to my rant/eulogy.

Barendd - was the WLD responsible for making your characters too powerful at 9th level, or was it the DM?

 

[Desdichado]

If anything, it seems Cthulhu has even greater tendency to metagame knowledge intruding than D&D. You already know that the premise of the game is to kill you, so you play completely wacky to try and survive as long as you can.

It's just a personal thing. Some people play that way, and it's difficult to make it stop.