Empath Negative
First Post
Nothing arbitrary about it. These are the risks of adventuring... and... more importantly... it would COMPLETELY BROADSIDE THEM. They so wouldn't be expecting it.
I need a little tactical advice, as a DM
- Thread starter Greenfield
- Start date
Nothing arbitrary about it. These are the risks of adventuring... and... more importantly... it would COMPLETELY BROADSIDE THEM. They so wouldn't be expecting it.
Jackinthegreen
Explorer
It is still "industrial strength uncool" to destroy the wands though, regardless of whether they're expecting it. It is just something people don't do, especially when the group rotates DMs. "You know those wands you got last time? They explode." That is a phenomenally douche move that will anger the players, no question.
Here's what to do: throw an encounter at the party that will stretch them and do it early. Watch how they respond to it. Then lay out lots of traps for them to encounter and give them no other fights for a while. Let them know, via clues in the dungeon, that there is a big fight coming up. In that big fight, choose a good mix of monster types, one that really represents each of the characters and use the party's tactics in the first fight against them. They'll find it a challenge - and a surprise - when the enemy mage pulls out his own wand of lightning and fights ... lightning with lightning!
Assuming that that party is high enough level to cast the spells anyway, the wands don't really increase their power, just their endurance. You are now free to set up a scenario where, when the casters run out of spells, resting for the rest of the day is not an option.
A not very optimized wizard (Int 16, level 6) will do 6d6 damage with a fireball with a save DC of 16. The wand will do 5d6 damage and have a DC of 14.
Wall of fire also has a duration of concentration plus 1 round per level. Assuming a standard wand with a minimum caster level, a single wand will only last for 35 minutes if no one concentrates on it. And someone who is concentrating on it is not doing anything else.
If the wall is stopping the advance (plausible for a horde of first or second level characters), that wizard then becomes a prime target for ranged attacks to force concentration checks. Which probably forces him to hide, so that he can't see or react as quickly when the enemy tries to move around the wall.
If the previous GM didn't provide a pile of cure wands, the PC's are also going to have to worry about running out of hit points as well.
If you are doing Thermopylae, reinforcements should also be available. These will eventually be higher level and/or have access to Protection from Fire.
A not very optimized wizard (Int 16, level 6) will do 6d6 damage with a fireball with a save DC of 16. The wand will do 5d6 damage and have a DC of 14.
Wall of fire also has a duration of concentration plus 1 round per level. Assuming a standard wand with a minimum caster level, a single wand will only last for 35 minutes if no one concentrates on it. And someone who is concentrating on it is not doing anything else.
If the wall is stopping the advance (plausible for a horde of first or second level characters), that wizard then becomes a prime target for ranged attacks to force concentration checks. Which probably forces him to hide, so that he can't see or react as quickly when the enemy tries to move around the wall.
If the previous GM didn't provide a pile of cure wands, the PC's are also going to have to worry about running out of hit points as well.
If you are doing Thermopylae, reinforcements should also be available. These will eventually be higher level and/or have access to Protection from Fire.
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
I assume the PCs are going to be holding the pass. So while they may be able to set up a wall of fire to block lots of low level foot soldiers, what will they do when the enemy sends in their black ops squad of invisible rogues that dim door past the wall right next to the casters?
Other ways to "deal" with the wands are to throw tons of low level enemies. If the PCs chew up the charges then the wands did their job.
If you want to be "evil" you could have it so that in the middle of the battle a huge area version of convert wand (BoED) goes off and now the PCs are healing the enemy. *Scribbles a note to do this himself*
A few "elite" forces with SR should handle the wands. The wands are using the min caster level and they probably arn't going to be able to punch through. Even SR 20 is going to require decent rolling to get through. Tack on Resonating Resistance for even more stopped spells.
Finally, Ready Action: Counterspell. If the PCs have a large selection of wands, what is to stop the enemy to have a cadre of casters with wands of dispel magic attempting to counterspell everything?
Other ways to "deal" with the wands are to throw tons of low level enemies. If the PCs chew up the charges then the wands did their job.
If you want to be "evil" you could have it so that in the middle of the battle a huge area version of convert wand (BoED) goes off and now the PCs are healing the enemy. *Scribbles a note to do this himself*
A few "elite" forces with SR should handle the wands. The wands are using the min caster level and they probably arn't going to be able to punch through. Even SR 20 is going to require decent rolling to get through. Tack on Resonating Resistance for even more stopped spells.
Finally, Ready Action: Counterspell. If the PCs have a large selection of wands, what is to stop the enemy to have a cadre of casters with wands of dispel magic attempting to counterspell everything?
Greenfield
Adventurer
The issue is the pure endurance, but also versatility.
The party is more than high enough in levels to cast any of these spells directly, but there are so many different wands that the party couldn't cast each spell mentioned even once in a day.
So, with the wands, they'll have all that variety, plus all the spells they can cast directly.
I demonstrated once in this campaign that most spells, thrown spur of the moment, are a raindrop in a volcano when dealing with divisional level battles. That is, when your battle lines are a mile or more long and the fight is going to last all day, a 40 foot diameter flash of fire that's gone in an instant just doesn't mean much in the big picture.
Those same spells, timed and placed with a broader tactical view, can disrupt enemy efforts at key moments, and can turn the tide of a battle.
The main encounter will be such a confrontation. The "secret path" won't.
So my job, should they end up at this point (not a sure thing by any means) should be to get them to take the main battlefield and leave securing the secondary pass to an NPC force.
At the main battlefield they'll be facing an army with an arcane caster corps of its own. If the party accepts direction from the military commander, they'll be very effective, but they won't make many decisions for themselves and probably won't have much fun.
If they freelance they'll have more fun, but make less of a difference in the main battle.
If they mention the sheer bulk of wands they have, the commander will thank them for volunteering their arsenal, and their own army's caster corps will be far more potent.
They'll get back whatever survives the fight, and be paid for what was used of course, but... railroading them that way reeks of just arbitrarily taking their goodies away.
I think I'll do the unthinkable here: I'll trust my players not to go ape-spit on me, to see that they are indeed insanely over equipped and dispose of the excess in a responsible manner.
I'll just make sure that I provide them with ample opportunities to do that "reasonable and responsible" thing.
The party is more than high enough in levels to cast any of these spells directly, but there are so many different wands that the party couldn't cast each spell mentioned even once in a day.
So, with the wands, they'll have all that variety, plus all the spells they can cast directly.
I demonstrated once in this campaign that most spells, thrown spur of the moment, are a raindrop in a volcano when dealing with divisional level battles. That is, when your battle lines are a mile or more long and the fight is going to last all day, a 40 foot diameter flash of fire that's gone in an instant just doesn't mean much in the big picture.
Those same spells, timed and placed with a broader tactical view, can disrupt enemy efforts at key moments, and can turn the tide of a battle.
The main encounter will be such a confrontation. The "secret path" won't.
So my job, should they end up at this point (not a sure thing by any means) should be to get them to take the main battlefield and leave securing the secondary pass to an NPC force.
At the main battlefield they'll be facing an army with an arcane caster corps of its own. If the party accepts direction from the military commander, they'll be very effective, but they won't make many decisions for themselves and probably won't have much fun.
If they freelance they'll have more fun, but make less of a difference in the main battle.
If they mention the sheer bulk of wands they have, the commander will thank them for volunteering their arsenal, and their own army's caster corps will be far more potent.
They'll get back whatever survives the fight, and be paid for what was used of course, but... railroading them that way reeks of just arbitrarily taking their goodies away.
I think I'll do the unthinkable here: I'll trust my players not to go ape-spit on me, to see that they are indeed insanely over equipped and dispose of the excess in a responsible manner.
I'll just make sure that I provide them with ample opportunities to do that "reasonable and responsible" thing.
James the Newbie
First Post
See if you can encourage them to use a staff of many wands. Takes 3 wands, uses 3 charges, and lets you shoot off all 3 wands. Could burn through the wands much faster?
frankthedm
First Post
What level are they? If they over 9th, then just give them copious amounts of inconsequential targets. Just because 1st level humanoid warriors stop giving XP, that doesn't mean they stop appearing. By that level the party is assumed to have the resources to devastate humanoid hordes. It sounds like your party has the resources, so it is time for them to devastate a couple orc bands or hobgoblin tribes.
anest1s
First Post
Ok here is an other idea:
A larger army will have a better access to spells too.
You can fit in here that they should give the wands to their army.
Whatever they do with the wands, the problem isn't holding the large army...it is keeping the pass safe.
In the small pass the persians (or whatever) will send their best troops to make sure it gets opened. It could be a boss fight of some sorts. Due to action economy the wands wont prove useful here. Put 2 very hard encounters or 2 challenging ones and 1 very hard, or something that feels right. Then after they win the pass, make it clear that an other attack isn't expected, heal them and send them to join the main force of the battle. There they can use the wands...basically they will need to use them, and they will be happy they have them.
the problem is finding the right CR for the second battlefield
Or you can forget about CR in the second battle; instead they get a bonus or something for the number of kills they manage to make? And will be no real challenge against level 1 warriors.
A larger army will have a better access to spells too.
You can fit in here that they should give the wands to their army.
Whatever they do with the wands, the problem isn't holding the large army...it is keeping the pass safe.
In the small pass the persians (or whatever) will send their best troops to make sure it gets opened. It could be a boss fight of some sorts. Due to action economy the wands wont prove useful here. Put 2 very hard encounters or 2 challenging ones and 1 very hard, or something that feels right. Then after they win the pass, make it clear that an other attack isn't expected, heal them and send them to join the main force of the battle. There they can use the wands...basically they will need to use them, and they will be happy they have them.
the problem is finding the right CR for the second battlefield
Or you can forget about CR in the second battle; instead they get a bonus or something for the number of kills they manage to make? And will be no real challenge against level 1 warriors.
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