I need some help with New Spells please

[Matafuego]

One of my players came to me with a list of new spells to study and since they're mostly new ideas and not improved versions of another spells I am having trouble with them.

The First of them is one that allows a Wizard to gain a Spellcraft bonus (the bonus and the actual level of the spell is yet to be decided) for the duration of the spell (which hasn't been decided either).
Spellcraft is a very very important skill for a Spellcaster (specially since I have alternative sources of magic with varying Spellcraft DC's) so I don't want the spell to make it too easy but I also don't think it can't be done.
Since Fox's Cunning gives you a +4 Int (thus a +2 Spellcraft for 1Min/Level) I thought it should be level 2 or 3 and give a +4 or a +6.
What do you think?


The second is kinda like the "Create Food and Water" Spell.
It creates one fruit to withstand the day (IMC Create Food and Water always feeds just one person).
Can Arcane Spellcaster do this stuff?
Or is it reserved for Clerics? (Not even Druids can)

Thanks a lot for your opinions and maybe precedents from other sources.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Jump is a first level spell that gives you a +10 competence bonus to your jumping skill for 1 min/level. The bonus increases to +20 at 5th and +30 at 9th. I don't think that a similar spell that gave a similar competence bonus to Spellcraft checks would be unbalancing. When would a really high Spellcraft check be really powerful?

If you're afraid it can be unbalancing, divide the bonus by 2, or restrict to spell so that the bonus only applies to the check made to identify spells cast by other casters.

About the second spell. Again, maybe it's because I don't know enough about your world, but what special use would a fruit have? It isn't enough to feed a person. If the spell states that the fruit may only be eaten, I'd make that spell a cantrip, probably...

AR

 

[Matafuego]

Mmm sorry I should have been clearer.
The Spellcraft bonus isn't unballancing per se. I don't mind mages identifying spells in the course of the battle but the player was very specific about wanting this bonus applying to the "learn a new spell from spellbook or scroll".
IMC there are different "forms" of magic, if you learn one (such as "gem magic") then the DC to learn a spell from another one (such as "spellbook magic") increases by 10, 15 or even 20, that's why he wants this spell, so that he can cast it before trying to learn a new spell. (The spells are the same, there are some minor changing in the way the spells are kept and the effect of material components). So a +20 bonus seems huge to me.
I hope I made myself clear on that :S

And the fruit thingy, the fruit could feed and satiate the thirst of one character. Just like a create food and water spell IMC, that's why I was asking myself if that wasn't Clerical Domain Only (such as Healing) since not even druids can create food.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Simple solution. Let him have the spell give him an obscene spell craft - but tell him/let him find out that learning a new spell requires hours (or days) of study - having a boost for minutes will not help (or if your evil - let him learn it w/the bonus, but only be able to cast the spells he learned through the bonus while he is benefiting from the bonus!! I want to cast fireball, so I have to cast boost spellcraft so I understand it enough to cast it!)

The fruit thing... Let him make it, but as it is not in the major area of study for a arcane caster, make it 4th or 5th. Make it 1 level less then the level required to summon a creature that can create food & water would be another way of basing this spell level.

Oh - and druids get goodberry, make magic berry (up to 8), each counts as a days food, so a pouch of 30 berries is food for a month. That, and its only 1st level - not shabby.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

On the fruit thing.

I think that it's relatively clear that allowing an arcane spell which creates food and/or water isn't unbalancing per se. Relatively few games are going to have extended periods in which the characters really, really need magical food, and when you think of a Cleric's areas of core competence, I think that "creating food" comes way down the list. Besides which, a reasonably inventive Wizard can use existing spells as a poor man's Create Food: Magic Missile or Sleep are excellent for taking down small game, Detect Poison can tell you whether or not a plant is edible, and Locate Object is hugely useful for foraging. So I don't think that creating a meal-in-an-orange-rind is going to be a big deal for your Wizard's power.

Now, I think that there is a flavour argument for restricting food creation in certain games. Judeo-Christian mythology puts a lot of importance onto food creation -- think manna from heaven during Exodus, or Jesus with the loaves and fishes. Despite the default polytheistic background for D&D, Clerics have been designed to resonate with a very Christian concept of miraculous magic.

(Also, there's some Greek backing to the concept of food and water creation as divine magic -- I believe that Athena and Poseidon were competing for the affections of the Athenians, and Athena created an olive tree (food), while Poseidon created a spring (water). But Poseidon's spring welled with salt-water, non-potable, and thus the Athenians rejected him and accepted Athena as their patron goddess.)

So what I'd ask myself is whether or not that kind of mythological resonance is important to the atmosphere of my game. Is food creation something that feels divine in my game? Ought it to? Then reserve it for Clerics. Does my game subscribe to a less traditional flavour for miraculous magic? Then I'd allow it to Wizards.

 

[Matafuego]

I haven't thought the fruit thing that way and it made totally sense so I don't think I'm going to allow it.
And for the Spellcraft, I had forgotten it took so long so maybe I should tell them that he can do it but not for learning or researching spells (I know that's exactly what he wanted but I think it will alter the "differences" there were prior to that spell between the magic users styles).

He also sent me other two spells. What do you think of them?
I think the first one isn't very good since it's like a Fireball with a Full Reflex save and a Hold Person that doesn't really hold you.

What do you think????

Kether's Igneous Prison

Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Castin time: 1 standard action
Reach: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft / level)
Target: 1 creature (see description)
Saving Throw: Reflex Negates
Duration: 1 round / level (D)
Spell Resistance: Yes

From the wizards finger a ray of fire erupts that forms a fire spiral around the target withput touching it. The target creature can be medium-sized, large (at lvl 9), huge (lvl 11), gargantuan (lvl13) or colossal (lvl15).

The creature can not move (that includes walking, flying or even casting spells with somatic components but not floating in its place unless it has very long wings) without activating the prison.

When the prison is activated the fire closes over the target causing 1d6 +1 points of fire damage per level (maximum 10d6 + 10) no saving throw allowed there.

Kether's Hardness

Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 1 minute
Reach: Touch
Target: 1 object per caster level
Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless, Object)
Duration: 24 hours
Spell resistance: Yes (Harmless, Object)

The targeted objects gain the hardness of iron (Hardness 10) while the spell lasts or until it's hardness has reduced a total of 10 points per caster level (maximum 100 points). An object that has this spell active on it is immune to a Shatter spell.

Material Component: A mix of powdered iron and powdered gems worth 10 GP that has to be sprinkled over the objects.

Focus: A small disk of iron.

This spell can be made permanent via the Permanency spell expending 1.000 XP per object.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Kether's Igneous Prison

This spell sounds ok - but since they are surrounded by a spiraling flame, perhaps reaching through should harm those who do so.. have it do 2d6+2 damage (no save) vs those who reach/attack through the area, that damage is subtracted from the prison dmg if the prisoner breaks free. Large or bigger weapons take dmg but the user does not, all other weapons used to attack the prisoner take the damage along with the wielder.

Kether's Hardness

1st) define maximum size of object
2nd) 24 hours is awful good
3rd) can it be cast on anything (10 hardness paper or water?)
4th) does it retain it's flexibility?
5th) Compare it to the 6th LV druid spell, Ironwood
Casting Time: 1 minute/lb. created
Effect: An ironwood object weighing up to 5 lb./level
Duration: One day/level (D)
...on wood items only...if you make only half as much ironwood as the spell would normally allow, any weapon, shield, or suit of armor so created is treated as a magic item with a +1 enhancement bonus.

The enhancement potential = +1 LV
Ability to cast it on objects that normally have 0 hardness = +1 LV
The multi day duration = +1 LV
Ability to target any object with hardness = +1 LV

So if you drop the multi day, no ability to target 0 hardness, and the enhancement potential, call it 3rd. This assumes it otherwise conforms to Ironwood - including the permanency cost.

 

[Matafuego]

I've made some changes then... How do they look now? Mostly the Hardness spell was made to allow recipients some hardness (such as potions and flasks and vials)

Kether's Igneous Prison

Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Castin time: 1 standard action
Reach: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft / level)
Target: 1 creature (see description)
Saving Throw: Reflex Negates
Duration: 1 round / level (D)
Spell Resistance: Yes

From the wizards finger a ray of fire erupts that forms a fire spiral around the target withput touching it. The target creature can be medium-sized, large (at lvl 9), huge (lvl 11), gargantuan (lvl13) or colossal (lvl15).

The creature can not move (that includes walking, flying or even casting spells with somatic components but not floating in its place unless it has very long wings) without activating the prison.

When the prison is activated the fire closes over the target causing 1d6 +1 points of fire damage per level (maximum 10d6 + 10) no saving throw allowed there, when the spell duration ends the prison activates itself allowing a Reflex Saving Throw for half damage.

If a creature attacks or reaches the imprisonned creature it takes 2d6 + 2 fire damage (no save allowed). If a large or larger weapon is used to attack the imprisonned creature the weapon takes the damage instead. Projectile or ranged weapons do not suffer this damage as ranged spells.

Kether's Hardness

Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 1 minute
Reach: Touch
Target: 1 glass, crystal or ceramic object per caster level (weighing no more than 5lbs/caster level)
Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless, Object)
Duration: 24 hours (D)
Spell resistance: Yes (Harmless, Object)

The targeted objects gain the hardness of iron (Hardness 10) while the spell lasts or until it's hardness has reduced a total of 10 points per caster level (maximum 100 points). An object that has this spell active on it is immune to a Shatter spell.

Material Component: A mix of powdered iron and powdered gems worth 10 GP that has to be sprinkled over the objects.

Focus: A small disk of iron.

This spell can be made permanent via the Permanency spell expending 1.000 XP per object.