D&D General I really LOVE Stomping Goblins

[Charlaquin]

Also not arguably evil in the context of his source material as he is the Adversary tasked to tempt humanity and test their worthiness by God. He's literally doing the job given to him by the arbiter of good and evil in his context.

Ehh… that better describes Shayatan/Iblis than the Christian Devil. Most of what people think of as “Satan” is non-canonical, especially anything to do with “Lucifer.”

 

[Charlaquin]

Ah, "no true Scotsman" defense.

No, Lucifer in Paradise Lost just literally is not an evil character. The Devil of Christianity is certainly evil, but he’s not the least but nuanced. People often conflate the two characters, but they are very much not the same figure.

 

[Charlaquin]

He and the other angels and demons wouldn't be inherently evil or good, either. If they were, then the fall could not have happened.

We’re getting deep into discussion of religion here, and a lot of what’s being said is in Not Even Wrong territory.

 

[Maxperson]

No, Lucifer in Paradise Lost just literally is not an evil character. The Devil of Christianity is certainly evil, but he’s not the least but nuanced. People often conflate the two characters, but they are very much not the same figure.

Sure, but on the FOX TV show, he's got quite a bit.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

According to the person you said was "right" those creatures would not have what that person considers free will to be. So, you gave a counter example to something that you earlier said was "right". Good job.

Oh dear lol. It's not a "counter-example", it's that you're trying to sellotape other people's arguments together.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I thought genocide was the extermination of a population, not a species. Otherwise, no has ever committed genocide (since the human race is still here).

In present-day real life, it's a race/ethnicity/etc. In a fantasy situation or possibly even in human pre-history, it could include a species.

But the point is it's not just "killing a lot of people", it's something more directed and intentional than that.

 

[Reynard]

No, Lucifer in Paradise Lost just literally is not an evil character. The Devil of Christianity is certainly evil, but he’s not the least but nuanced. People often conflate the two characters, but they are very much not the same figure.

There are many different interpretations of Satan, and in many of them he is both evil and complex. You have staked this claim where you have defined "inherently evil" as "simple" and there it's nonsense.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

What does 'inherently evil' even mean? I don't think it is really a coherent concept to begin with.

 

[HammerMan]

Tossing this out there, if we are going to take this into consideration...

And what happens when you find that "pest" animal is actually a race of sapient beings? Creatures that are wise, sane, perceptive...etc can be found around us.

If we are using Sapient, quite a few animals could fall under that idea such as Dolphins, Dogs...and RATS. Rats are considered to be rather intelligent, emotional, and very into community. They are puzzle solvers and can figure things out using intelligence rather than their animalistic qualities. This is one reason they have survived in many instances, despite many attempts to wipe them out. They are also considered a pest.

Pigs are another creature that we tend to kill on a massive scale. Pigs are incredibly a lot like Humans. They are intelligent, being smarter than dogs and most other creatures, building attachments similar to humans, having emotional and characteristic ranges as wide as humans (so yes, sadistic pigs, loving pigs, etc), and even physically being close enough to humans that we can use different body parts of theirs in transplants for humans. We can grow those body parts (pig blood, hearts, ect.) to be replacement parts for humans.

We eat bacon, hot dogs, and a ton of other things from these intelligent creatures.

It seems that people have an EASY time considering creatures in a fantasy game as being things we need to treat like humans, but when it comes to REAL LIFE examples of things that actually have some intelligence or show qualities of humanity and intelligence in real life...we discount what we are doing and the killing we participate in (many times, everyday).

yes but someone somewhere made weird catagories of what we eat, what we wear, what we extermanante and what has value...

"I'm an otter, I do cute human things with my hands" "Okay, go live an let live"
"I'm a dog" "Your my best friend now as long as you don't attack us"
"I'm a cow" "Your a hamburger wrapped in a leather coat you go to the slaughter house..."

 

[HammerMan]

You are wrong.

Exhibit A: Satan

is satan evil? I have to double check... hold on
"A figure known as ha-satan ("the satan") first appears in the Hebrew Bible as a heavenly prosecutor, a member of the sons of God subordinate to Yahweh (God), who prosecutes the nation of Judah in the heavenly court and tests the loyalty of Yahweh's followers."

nope just a guy doing his job... maybe you meant Lucifer, the fallen angel... or maybe you mean the devil. I'm never really sure,,