D&D General I really LOVE Stomping Goblins

[Oofta]

Whenever I hear the argument that sentient beings can't be hard-wired to evil I think about this article in The Atlantic. Basically it's a story about people that are born psycopaths. The intro talks about a little girl that had been adopted at age 2 to a loving family, there was no history of abuse or learning disabilities. They give examples of various things she did as a young child, at the age of 6 she tried to choke her adopted sibling to death. The little girl admitted that she wanted to kill her, and the rest of the family.

Some people are just born evil. The article goes on to talk about various treatment options and how some people simply don't care if they hurt others, many enjoy it. Punishment means nothing to them, and they are extremely dangerous. In one case during an interview where one man was being shown pictures he replied “I don’t know what you call this emotion,” one psychopathic prisoner said, looking at a photo of a fearful face, “but it’s what people look like just before you stab them.”

The only treatment that has been remotely successful is to train these individuals that it's more rewarding to follow the rules in modern society. Another story they tell is about a guy who had been through treatment, they considered him a success because he's not shooting people and committing armed robberies. Even he admits that on a scale of 1 to 10 it's an 8 to follow the rules and not lash out.

So imagine a species that had the moral compass of people like that. I think we would consider them inherently evil, even if we can with a huge amount of effort convince them that following the rules is more rewarding than not.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So the mission is clear: kill that little girl?

That can't possibly be what you want us to take from that, but in the context of 'born evil' as half an excuse to eradicate a people, that's kind of where it goes.

 

[payn]

Whenever I hear the argument that sentient beings can't be hard-wired to evil I think about this article in The Atlantic. Basically it's a story about people that are born psycopaths. The intro talks about a little girl that had been adopted at age 2 to a loving family, there was no history of abuse or learning disabilities. They give examples of various things she did as a young child, at the age of 6 she tried to choke her adopted sibling to death. The little girl admitted that she wanted to kill her, and the rest of the family.

Some people are just born evil. The article goes on to talk about various treatment options and how some people simply don't care if they hurt others, many enjoy it. Punishment means nothing to them, and they are extremely dangerous. In one case during an interview where one man was being shown pictures he replied “I don’t know what you call this emotion,” one psychopathic prisoner said, looking at a photo of a fearful face, “but it’s what people look like just before you stab them.”

The only treatment that has been remotely successful is to train these individuals that it's more rewarding to follow the rules in modern society. Another story they tell is about a guy who had been through treatment, they considered him a success because he's not shooting people and committing armed robberies. Even he admits that on a scale of 1 to 10 it's an 8 to follow the rules and not lash out.

So imagine a species that had the moral compass of people like that. I think we would consider them inherently evil, even if we can with a huge amount of effort convince them that following the rules is more rewarding than not.

So, you are saying these folks should just be executed instead?

Edit: ninja'd

 

[Scribe]

So imagine a species that had the moral compass of people like that. I think we would consider them inherently evil, even if we can with a huge amount of effort convince them that following the rules is more rewarding than not.

And you know what, this is a perfect example of how I would implement 'psychotic, pyro, cannibal, goblins.'

An ability to understand that there IS another path to follow (rule of law, work with others and dont get all bitey or set them on fire) but at a basic level, that is not their initial outlook.

However we all know your not going to sell that in 2022 D&D LOL.

 

[HammerMan]

lmao Vaalingrade, you could not be more insufferable a dilettante. Here ya go, buddy: Free Will (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) this should get you started. But once you're in a PhD program for philosophy working on your dissertation, specifically on free will, please get back to me.

Algorithms do not "make choices" where they could have done otherwise given the exact same set of initial conditions. I guess you should also learn the definition of the phrase "to do otherwise".

um... since when do we require ANY education to talk about this game... let alone "when your in a PhD program" for. a. game.

 

[MNblockhead]

1. No one has called anyone racist.
2. Come on, what did you expect the response to this thread to be?

I was kinda hoping it would be a love fest of gamers describing the joys of playing morally bankrupt murder hobos stomping goblins.

While the philosophy debate club this thread has spawned led to some interesting conversations, I was hoping to learn about more ways to stomp goblins.

I'm in a creative rut and don't have much to contribute, perhaps because I'm the DM running a game with a city of Orcus-worshiping goblins and have exercised much more creativity in curb-stomping PCs with overpowered, evil gobbos.

To add something to this conversation, I will say that as a DM, I love setting up encounters with groups of low-level, weak, but sneaky, clever, and nasty creatures. Goblins, kobolds, gremlins, mephits, imps, and mites. Trust me, give me any group of arm-chair moral philosophers and have them run a group of PCs through one of my goblin caves or mite lairs. They'll be stomping them with relish before the night is done---well, those they can actually hit before they run away rethinking their life choices and cursing bounded accuracy.

 

[Cadence]

So the mission is clear: kill that little girl?

That can't possibly be what you want us to take from that, but in the context of 'born evil' as half an excuse to eradicate a people, that's kind of where it goes.

And @payn 's ninja.

I have the Zevon song Excitable Boy in my head now.

To start, I don't think I'd ever put that in one of my games.

So, I mean, killing her is clearly not the right answer, but what do you do with the little girl? Is there treatment that has it where she's relatively safe to be among others? If not, are there not-awful asylums? Prison after she does something awful? In the old movies do they lock them in the attic?

What do you do if it's a small farm house in the wilderness and you need to work the farm and feed and protect the other kids?

What if the condition is revealed while you're all on a small long-haul space ship?

If there are a few hundred with that condition getting ready to attack your city of 1,000 that's barely feeding itself?

And then on the other side, when someone accuses a child who isn't of being that way...

 

[Vaalingrade]

um... since when do we require ANY education to talk about this game... let alone "when your in a PhD program" for. a. game.

Admittedly, it was a minor in Phil, Major in English, but still, I got my paper that lets me argue on the internet.

I ultimately decided to make enough money to eat and became a corporate scumbag who writes on the side though.

 

[HammerMan]

Elixir is from New Mutants v3 / New X-men: Academy X, which was right before Wanda Ruins Everything and Marvel made the X-men pay for their movies being owned by Fox.

He retained his powers and was definitely at the school when Peter Parker asked Beast for help saving a gut-shot Aunt May in One More Day.

and he can self res... he is a biokenetic (omega level) that can give an cure cancer at will... so you know, kinda writing into a corner for the X office... also known as a day that ends in Y.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So, I mean, killing her is clearly not the right answer, but what do you do with the little girl? Is there treatment that has it where she's relatively safe to be among others? If not, are there not-awful asylums? Prison after she does something awful? In the old movies do they lock them in the attic?

Develop a dogma that normalizes how it is okay to hurt her until you're allowed to kill her and feel satisfied by it.