I refuse to DM 3/3.5 past 7th level. How about you?
- Thread starter Chainsaw Mage
- Start date
Psion
Adventurer
I don't find feats or spells difficult to manage. The only real problem I see at higher level is that players who can't keep numbers straight and iterative attacks don't match. I work around this by making them jot their totals down. Otherwise combat drags.
Epic doesn't offer gameplay that I am really interested in though. Most of the scenarios and villains I am interested in facnig the characters with are between CRs 10-25.
Epic doesn't offer gameplay that I am really interested in though. Most of the scenarios and villains I am interested in facnig the characters with are between CRs 10-25.
I can and will run at any level, however:
Epic is, in my opinion, just stupid. There are better homebrew methods of dealing with 21st and higher.
I love the 5th and above; survivability, power, yet still vulnerable to all manner of nasty DM tricks.
The key to high level play is to restrict, *HEAVILY*, what the players have access to. Primordia, which is my own campaign world, has a definite and specific list of sources available as well as a lot of info on what the players cannot not have. This includes a list of forbidden spells, feats, sources, a maximum of one prestige class that, without excellent roleplaying, must be maxed out before taking any other class levels, etc. Although it seems like a ton of info, the handout is only about 15 pages long (which includes regional info, economic background, and a lot of other fluff) and my players really seem to enjoy the game.
Epic is, in my opinion, just stupid. There are better homebrew methods of dealing with 21st and higher.
I love the 5th and above; survivability, power, yet still vulnerable to all manner of nasty DM tricks.
The key to high level play is to restrict, *HEAVILY*, what the players have access to. Primordia, which is my own campaign world, has a definite and specific list of sources available as well as a lot of info on what the players cannot not have. This includes a list of forbidden spells, feats, sources, a maximum of one prestige class that, without excellent roleplaying, must be maxed out before taking any other class levels, etc. Although it seems like a ton of info, the handout is only about 15 pages long (which includes regional info, economic background, and a lot of other fluff) and my players really seem to enjoy the game.
Imperialus
Explorer
I think D&D starts to break down form me (from a DM perspective at least) at around level 15-16. It varies depending on the characters, and it's more from a lack of time for me to prepare encounters (full time university plus work) than any desire to prevent characters from reaching the top of their game. My favorite levels are probably from about 7-14. By level 7 most characters who want to make a transition into a PRC have had the oppertunity to do so and become settled in and by 15 they are really starting to make their mark on the world, tell me Frodo was more than level 15 when he threw the ring into Mount Doom.
When it comes to playing my favorite levels are again 7-14 but I'll play up to 20. My group has never gone into epic, the one time we could have hit level 21 we just stayed at 20 since we didn't have the ELH and since the campaign was drawing to a close anyhow we just wrapped it up.
When it comes to playing my favorite levels are again 7-14 but I'll play up to 20. My group has never gone into epic, the one time we could have hit level 21 we just stayed at 20 since we didn't have the ELH and since the campaign was drawing to a close anyhow we just wrapped it up.
Qualidar
First Post
The highest I've ever gotten with a group is my high-level Nordic group, now ranging from levels 14-17. It's not the gameplay that I find difficult at those levels, but the prep time. That group's really just filler for doing something old school between my regular campaigns, so I don't have to run them regularly, and I'll just run them when there's a good Dragon adventure of the appropriate levels. I can't imagine how much work it would be to actually do it myself once they're up in the stratosphere like that.
~Qualidar~
~Qualidar~
Lord Mhoram
Hero
I'll GM anything.
However I am in a special set of circumstances - I run D&D for the wife, and she for me. We don't play/GM D&D in a group - so that simplifies things. We also dislike about half of the epic rules, and dispense with them. We did a quick and easy replacement - that helps for epic play.
That being said when I GM I just change the types of stories I tell - when I GMed my wife's 1st ed characters (A mage and a paladin) to 30+ levels this is what I did:
Early was classic dungeon crawl / City stuff
then some dungeion / City and wilderness
then some basic planar travelling
back to dungeions, city and wilderness and added in high stakes battles with battlesystem *
then advanced planar stuff
then they went into space with Spelljammer and kept up planar stuff. *
* by moving to battlesystem and Spelljammer it wasn't just the characters themselves they had to worry about, the threats to thier ship and armies could also work just as well as personal threat.
Moving into planar stuff allowed much more powerful personal foes, without destroying the fell of the original world, where villians that powerfull that didn't run a kingdom/empire/continent seemed silly.
One of the extended high level planar things was they ended up in Athas and came in, kicked butt and fixed the planet. Took about 6 levels of play (and they were high 20's when they started).
Given our primary game genre is superheroes rather than Fantasy - we tend to run high fantasy with great powers, that are worldshaking at higher levels anyway.
However I am in a special set of circumstances - I run D&D for the wife, and she for me. We don't play/GM D&D in a group - so that simplifies things. We also dislike about half of the epic rules, and dispense with them. We did a quick and easy replacement - that helps for epic play.
That being said when I GM I just change the types of stories I tell - when I GMed my wife's 1st ed characters (A mage and a paladin) to 30+ levels this is what I did:
Early was classic dungeon crawl / City stuff
then some dungeion / City and wilderness
then some basic planar travelling
back to dungeions, city and wilderness and added in high stakes battles with battlesystem *
then advanced planar stuff
then they went into space with Spelljammer and kept up planar stuff. *
* by moving to battlesystem and Spelljammer it wasn't just the characters themselves they had to worry about, the threats to thier ship and armies could also work just as well as personal threat.
Moving into planar stuff allowed much more powerful personal foes, without destroying the fell of the original world, where villians that powerfull that didn't run a kingdom/empire/continent seemed silly.
One of the extended high level planar things was they ended up in Athas and came in, kicked butt and fixed the planet. Took about 6 levels of play (and they were high 20's when they started).
Given our primary game genre is superheroes rather than Fantasy - we tend to run high fantasy with great powers, that are worldshaking at higher levels anyway.
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
my games tend to end at 12th level
-12th, 9th, 12th,
starting at 3rd the current group just hit 9/10. (21 sessions) Hmm the end of the story arc could be done at 12th level-ish but unless the level advancement slows, I will have to raise the challange level.
This game may go a little longer than the others - but I cant see it hitting 16th.
The groups other DM took us through CoSQ - up to 16th level. but said he was burnt out on running high level games.
I spent over an hour this morning rasing a NPC villian group from 9th level to 11th (and replacing the NPC killed by the players last night)
I like doing it, but it is time consumming.
-12th, 9th, 12th,
starting at 3rd the current group just hit 9/10. (21 sessions) Hmm the end of the story arc could be done at 12th level-ish but unless the level advancement slows, I will have to raise the challange level.
This game may go a little longer than the others - but I cant see it hitting 16th.
The groups other DM took us through CoSQ - up to 16th level. but said he was burnt out on running high level games.
I spent over an hour this morning rasing a NPC villian group from 9th level to 11th (and replacing the NPC killed by the players last night)
I like doing it, but it is time consumming.
Numion
First Post
According to the poll the usual messageboard argument that D&D is un-DMable at higher levels seems unfounded. It may seem complicated at first, but I noticed that actually playing up to those levels eases the transition considerably. All those new aspects to the game don't spring up suddenly.
Some aspects do change in leaps, like I suppose some DMs have difficulties when teleport is first introduced. I never noticed this spell to change how the game's played, but travelling from A to B was never a dominant factor in my games. The spell is also pretty limited in capacity.
Some aspects do change in leaps, like I suppose some DMs have difficulties when teleport is first introduced. I never noticed this spell to change how the game's played, but travelling from A to B was never a dominant factor in my games. The spell is also pretty limited in capacity.
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