I saw the MATRIX 2 thread SPOILERS ABOUND

[Black Omega]

Was she upset? I remember her having a reaction, but it could have been just surprise, "this program wants a kiss?"

Trinity drew her gun and was very ready to simply shoot Persephone out of hand. As well as promising she'd be the one killing Persepone if this was a trap. I'd say upset was putting it mildly.

I don't see it as him being a jerk- they're in a computer system, and Persephone is a program. What's to be jealous about? He's playing along to get what he wants. In Quake, you run around and flip the levers to make the plot advance. Your car doesn't get jealous, because they're not real levers. Apparently, in the matrix, you kiss the hot italian lady. The matrix wins that comparison, hands down.

So very true. your car is no more real to you in the game than the levels. And Neo did treat Trinity like a item rather than the love of his life. I think your analogy is pretty close to how Neo was treating the situation. Trinity (the 'car' in question) clearly felt differently.

 

[Ysgarran]

Also, and I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but, while the highway chase and battle were excellent, all those other cars were being driven presumably by normal people trapped in the matrix. So, with all the crashes, dozens of people were probably killed. And none of the characters seemed to care.

The scene I thought about is at the end where Neo is flying to the rescue and pulling cars in his wake. The film then implies that he begins to fly even faster. A lot of innocent people had to be hurt in that wake.

It occurred to me that the Matrix characters are callous when it comes to people still connected to the Matrix. What does Morpheous say during Neo's run in the 'Agent' training program?

Ysgarran.

 

[Ysgarran]

The worst is the abhorrently ridiculous sequence with the woman and the cake. The Merovingian[sp] is into Cause and Effect. WE GET IT. Why on earth do we need a nearly ten minute dissertation of such an elementary concept culminating with the outrageously stupid "programmed orgasm" sequence?

You do have a valid point, anytime you get chuckles out of the audience you gotta figure the scene could have been done better, escpecially when that particular one was being played for laughs.

I just thought the whole scene was to support Persephone's attitude towards the Merovingian and her statement that he was a 'pompous' lpcjt. They also wanted to portray the jaded nature of the Merovingian. Of course, this scene plays into the one where Persephone confronts the Mero. on just what he was doing in the ladies room.

Regarding the dance party in Zion: Did you see my comments comparing the dance scene from the first movie to the one in the second movie?

later,
Ysgarran.

 

[wighair]

Top film. My thoughts...

The rave WAS too long for me, but I think maybe it was there for a reason. Amidst the dancing we got the scene of Neo and Trinity making the beast with two backs. Add to that the fact that Neo ends the film in a coma (i.e. Time passes). Maybe the final film contains a child of Neo and Trinity. Not sure where it fits into the plot, but it could well do.

What about this wacky idea...

The "real world" could be another matrix, BUT the reason is that EVERYONE in the film is an AI. The people are all dead and only the machines (computers) remain. They create their virtual worlds, but start to think after a while "is this it?" They seek god and strive for understanding. In the end, the architect desides if he can't find god, then he'll create one.
They need to have the two (or more levels) of the matrix so the machines can think of themselves as human. And they need to have someone above the norm to worship - Neo becomes that god.

 

[Datt]

Top film. My thoughts...

The rave WAS too long for me, but I think maybe it was there for a reason. Amidst the dancing we got the scene of Neo and Trinity making the beast with two backs. Add to that the fact that Neo ends the film in a coma (i.e. Time passes). Maybe the final film contains a child of Neo and Trinity. Not sure where it fits into the plot, but it could well do.

While that would be something, I remember reading an interview with one of the Stars, Keanu I think, and in it he/she said that both movies cover a period of 72 hours. So while time does pass, not a lot of time passes.

 

[Kai Lord]

I just thought the whole [cake orgasm] scene was to support Persephone's attitude towards the Merovingian and her statement that he was a 'pompous' lpcjt. They also wanted to portray the jaded nature of the Merovingian. Of course, this scene plays into the one where Persephone confronts the Mero. on just what he was doing in the ladies room.

All they needed to do was have the Merovingian appear slightly distracted by the blond woman sitting over Neo's shoulder, then when she leaves, have him and her share a glance that says, "meet me in the ladies room".

Instead, its just one more drop in a bucket of overly long, pretentious, and embarrasingly juvenile scenes.

Regarding the dance party in Zion: Did you see my comments comparing the dance scene from the first movie to the one in the second movie?

Notice you were able to make your comparison by using an establishing shot of the first club that lasted five seconds and was quite tasteful. The dance number in the sequel was long, exploitative, and cued right into the techno porn music of Neo and Trinity's sex scene. Looked like something out of a beer commercial.

 

[mooby]

Well, like I said, there was some sort of emotion in the first. In reloaded, everyone was "cool".

However, what you said brings me to something I've been wondering about since the first moive: Is the Matrix really evil?

Think about it, what has the Matrix done that's really evil? Sure, it uses people as batteries, but it seems more symbiotic than parasitic. After all, the Matrix even tried to create a perfect world for people to inhabit.

Okay, an agent may inhabit a person, but who's to say that this destroys the human?

Perhaps we could look at the movies like this:

The Archietect is God. He created the world and controls it and has a plan for humanity. He tried to make the world perfect. But humanity by its very nature can't exist in such a state, so he made it as perfect as the human mind can comprehend.

Morpheus doesn't like the plan. He believes that he knows how to govern his life better than God, so he leads an uprising.

However, Morpheus has forgetten that God is omnipotent and, as a result, his "revolt" is all part of the divine plan.

That would make Morpheus Lucifer.

And, when you think about it, what kind of world does Morpheus offer humanity? A blasted out wasteland. Can anything grow there? What about other animals? Unless there's livestock in the matrix they can free, how does he plan to feed a couple million people? How many people would thank Morpheus for what he's done?

Most people would look upon the world Morpheus offers as Hell.

The movie already has religious undertones (the names of the characters being the most obvious). I doubt that the producers would go so far as to make the heroes the villains by the end of the trilogy, but it would be interesting to have humanity reject Neo and Morpheus and prefer to stay in the Matrix.

I love it, and I'm adopting this theory as my own.

It doesn't help Morpheus' case that he lives in the center of the earth, "down where it's warm."

 

[Villano]

I love it, and I'm adopting this theory as my own.

It doesn't help Morpheus' case that he lives in the center of the earth, "down where it's warm."

Help yourself to it. I'm glad that people like that idea.

And don't forget, "It's better to rule in Hell..."

 

[Wayside]

The cake scene serves a purpose: it introduces the concept that people can be programmed by the food that they "eat" while in the Matrix. This makes Neo's scenes with the Oracle a very big deal.

It seemed obvious that this was the point while watching the movie, until Neo stopped Smith from doing his replication trick. After that, it doesn't make sense that anything can be done to Neo without him allowing it to happen, hence being aware of it.

 

[Corinth]

It seemed obvious that this was the point while watching the movie, until Neo stopped Smith from doing his replication trick. After that, it doesn't make sense that anything can be done to Neo without him allowing it to happen, hence being aware of it.

Smith's attempt to infect Neo was obvious, blatant and designed to obliterate him; Neo said that the attack felt like he was back in the hallway before Room 303 when he died. Thus he was made aware of the attack by its very nature, and he resisted it. This is not so of the food; it's not obvious, blatant or designed to harm him. Neo's not a savvy guy; he misses the subtlties of life until they're pointed out to him; he catches up quick once he twigs to the idea, however. (He's your classic high Intelligence/average Wisdom guy.) The connection between Matrix food and programming likely never occured to him until that scene w/ the Merovingian; afterwards, he was rather reluctant to allow such a thing to happen again unless he believed that it was absolutely necessary--hence his reluctance to kiss Persephone--but he'll take that risk if he thinks that he must.

Moreover, that cake scene was meant as much for we in the audience as it was for Our Heroes on the screen. That scene alone will keep us thinking and talking about this film and the first one well after Revolutions comes out, which means that this film will maintain the franchise's awareness in our minds until then with ease. That's good filmmaking from any angle that you want to take it.