I see Skip's redefined Polymorph again...

[Camarath]

heh... I know you're trolling Nail... but I'll take the bait.


This IS how the rules are...

Polymorph: <snip> This spell functions like alter self, <snip>
<snip> The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form <snip>

Alter self: <snip> You retain your own ability scores. <snip>

Mike

Alter Self: " Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

 

[DarkMaster]

There are logical and reasonably supported arguments for both sides based upon the books.

If you prefer the 'hp change' rule for your PC because it makes your PC tougher, rememebr that a good DM will account for the change. This will lead to tougher foes and a greater chance fo death when your wildshape fails you.

I think it is more logical to benefit from the improved constitution otherwise you kind of break the mechanic, you get the new CON for everything except the HP, why ? because I feel its more balanced and it prevent munchkinism.
That is not an acceptable answer for my player, Thats like the headband of intellect not providing skill points. I feel that all these rules are there to stop the ones that abuses. Ok I will change level give me the headband.

But in my campaing I tend to control those abuses (you have to wear the headband through out the level to benefit from it, ect... ). So what if the sorcerer turns into a dragon and help the fighters, everyone will be happy in the end and it provides a good opportunity for the sorcerer player to do something else. Every time WotC comes up with special case rules for balance purpose I am very skeptical. I see the rule like a big software and all those "if(this and that or this and that and that) then" really don't look good and might demonstrate that a 4th edition might be needed hope not.

 

[mikebr99]

Alter Self: " Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

That is just flavour text, and an expansion of what was said in the sentance before that... which I posted.


Polymorph uses the alter self mechanic, except where it specifically says otherwise. Alter self says, you keep your ability scores, which gets trumped by polymorph saying you get STR, CON, & DEX.


Mike

 

[Iku Rex]

That is just flavour text, ...

Read my post.

 

[DarkMaster]

Alter Self: " Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

What is HP the sum of what you rolled with or without adjustment. Poison do not affect HP they affect constitution but you still lose HP. And what if I cast heal on my self after the polymorph can I go higher or not. Clearly the ruling of the spell is like a stick in the wheel. it brakes everything and doesn't provide answer to anything.

 

[mikebr99]

And I agree with everyone, that you retain your hps... whatever your dice tell you... you just modify the new total by your new CON.


Mike

 

[Camarath]

That is just flavour text, and an expansion of what was said in the sentance before that... which I posted.

Are you saying that the whole sentence is flavor text or just the provision about hit points?

 

[mikebr99]

Read my post.

I did IR... see above.
tks.

Mike

 

[Camarath]

What is HP the sum of what you rolled with or without adjustment. Poison do not affect HP they affect constitution but you still lose HP. And what if I cast heal on my self after the polymorph can I go higher or not. Clearly the ruling of the spell is like a stick in the wheel. it brakes everything and doesn't provide answer to anything.

Your hit points are the total number of hit points you currently have. Some things normally affect HPs such as damage and changes in Con. But Alter Self states that your HPs "remain the same" as before you used the spell thus IMO preventing the normal increase in HPs for the spells change in Con.

 

[mikebr99]

Are you saying that the whole sentence is flavor text or just the provision about hit points?

I am saying that, w/alter self, nothing changes, so therefore, your saves, attacks and hps don't change.

Polymorph does change stuff, so things that are modified by that stuff DO change.


Mike