I see Skip's redefined Polymorph again...

[mikebr99]

Why? The rules clearly tell us to use "your" (or "the character's" or "the creature's") Con for for "hps, concentration, & FORT etc"...

Say, does alter self give you a NEW Con? Do the rules say anything about that?

(Sure, it says that you retain your Con, but that's just pointless flavor text, right? On the other hand, you do get "physical qualities"...)

Sorry IR... what are you trying to say here?

The rules say alter self doesn't give you the stats of your new form, polymorph does give you the STR, CON, & DEX.

Do you allow the polymorpher extra damage from the new forms STR, which would be better then your old STR?

Do you change the character's FORT save while in a different form (polymorphed)?

Do you change the reflex save of the character while in a different form (polymorphed)?


Not to you IR specifically:
Where is it written that the polymorpher gets all the benifits of the new STR, DEX & CON... except a new HP current total?

Mike

 

[DarkMaster]

Just to take the question in a slightly different direction:

How many players - the ones who insist that Con changes affect hit points - also adjust them down for a lower Con? Or adjust Reflex saves if their polymorphed Dex is lower?

I surely do, otherwise things would be broken

 

[Camarath]

But polymorph trumps that by giving you a new CON, based on your new form... I think that answers that... sorry your question or point is a little confusing.

Sorry if it is confusing, I think if answer these two question I can clear up my point for you. What does it mean for something to remain the same? And what does "Hit Points" mean?

Where is it written that the polymorpher gets all the benifits of the new STR, DEX & CON... except a new HP current total?

It states that right here: Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. Your Hit Points remain the same as they were before you cast the spell.

 

[Thanee]

To the initial post, if you refer to the FAQ, it has been stated that they are speaking of those mysterious base hit points there, which are nowhere defined.

So it was actually meant to be the way explained, that Con changes do affect hp. They just don't seem to have the ability to clearly state this somehow.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mikebr99]

Sorry if it is confusing, I think if answer these two question I can clear up my point for you. What does it mean for something to remain the same? And what does "Hit Points" mean?

In the case of polymorph... to remain the same WRT hps... if a wizard polys into a bear, he wouldn't re-roll his hit dice, (bears = d8, wizards = d4) as that remains the same.

current hit points = hit points (from dice) + modifiers (CON, toughness etc.) + extenuating circumstances (like damage)

Your Hit Points remain the same as they were before you cast the spell.

I agree... if the Mage's hps = 10d4+20 (con bonus), in his normal form, when he polymorphs... hps = 10d4 (same total from dice as above)... but here's where we differ... +40 (if he changed into a brown bear, which has a CON of 19).

Mike

[edit] I needed to clarify this more...

 

[Camarath]

To the initial post, if you refer to the FAQ, it has been stated that they are speaking of those mysterious base hit points there, which are nowhere defined.

Could you post the entry from the 3.5 FAQ the deals with polymorph and hit points because I can not find it.

 

[Aaron2]

I think that's why the Druid (w/MotW) didn't catch on 3.0. It takes a lot of work to organize all that stuff. But after the buffing they got in 3.5...

When the druidess IMC wild shaped, her AC dropped by at least 10 points. Plus, since she was a gnome with an 18 CON, her CON rarely went up. When she wild shaped she got slaughtered but did way more damage. It was brutal to watch her pounce and tear apart one monster only to be rended apart by the next one. She didn't do it much.


Aaron

 

[Thanee]

Nope. It has been posted on the board here once. The entry said, that hit points do not change. Later it was clarified, that they only mean base hit points. Don't ask me where exactly.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mikebr99]

And from the phb... P.9

If a character’s Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character’s hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.

Mike​

 

[Camarath]

In the case of polymorph... to remain the same WRT hps... if a wizard polys into a bear, he wouldn't re-roll his hit dice, (bears = d8, wizards = d4) as that remains the same.

hit points = hit dice total for your level + modifiers (CON, toughness etc.) + extenuating circumstances (like damage)
I agree... if the Mage's hps = 10d4+20 (con bonus), in his normal form, when he polymorphs... hps = 10d4 (same total from dice as above)... but here's where we differ... +40 (if he changed into a brown bear, which has a CON of 19).

I believe that hit points means the number of hit points you posses. That number remains the same as it was before the spell (just like your class and level, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses). I see nothing that says the "hit points" means the hit point gained solely from dice rolls.