I see Skip's redefined Polymorph again...

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

To tell the truth, I didn't slog thru every post, but judging by the last page I think this idea has not been brought up.

Many spells are left incomplete to save space, having you read other spells to fill in the blanks. Often, this works for high level spells that force you to read lower level spells to gain its complete effects. This may be a case where the reverse is true. I believe Polymorph heals you as if you had rested for a day, but only once per day. Alter Self does not. The provision in Alter Self might be to keep people from claiming that they regained HP as if they had rested, since it is simillar to Polymorph. When one spell states that you keep your HPs, it simply means that you don't heal.

One way or another, I would rule that HPs do change with a higher CON, simply because a), it is consistant with EVERY other instance in the game, b), the bonuses from changing into something with a high CON are usually no better than any other feat/spell combo, just another way of doing it, and c), With as many damn times as this single item has been changed and/or errataed(?), I think I can do as I please.

I would hate to be the guy trying to ref some official event.

 

[Camarath]

Many spells are left incomplete to save space, having you read other spells to fill in the blanks. Often, this works for high level spells that force you to read lower level spells to gain its complete effects. This may be a case where the reverse is true. I believe Polymorph heals you as if you had rested for a day, but only once per day. Alter Self does not. The provision in Alter Self might be to keep people from claiming that they regained HP as if they had rested, since it is simillar to Polymorph. When one spell states that you keep your HPs, it simply means that you don't heal.

So you believe that the provision that one's hit points remain the same does not apply to Polymorph. If that is the case why does this appear in the 3.5 DMG errata?

Polymorph
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 297
Problem: The description of the polymorph effect does not
account for changes to that spell.
Solution: Delete the paragraph beginning “Creatures that
polymorph themselves with an ability . . .”
Also, replace the last three paragraphs with the following
text:
Unless stated otherwise, creatures can polymorph into forms
of the same type or into an aberration, animal, dragon, fey,
giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze,
plant, or vermin form. Most spells and abilities that grant the
ability to polymorph place a cap on the Hit Dice of the form
taken.
Polymorphed creatures gain the Strength, Dexterity, and
Constitution of their new forms, as well as size, extraordinary
special attacks, movement capabilities (to a maximum of 120
feet for flying and 60 for nonflying movement), natural
armor bonus, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, and other
gross physical qualities such as appearance and number of
limbs. They retain their original class and level, Intelligence,
Wisdom, Charisma, hit points, base attack bonus, base save
bonuses, and alignment.
Creatures who polymorph keep their worn or held equipment
if the new form is capable of wearing or holding it.
Otherwise, it melds with the new form and ceases to function
for the duration of the polymorph.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

"They retain their original class and level, Intelligence,
Wisdom, Charisma, hit points, base attack bonus, base save
bonuses, and alignment."

My point exactly, the spell has changed so may times that I still thought that it did give you the HP back. Well, then I'd say that officially, you would keep your original HP, despite having a change in CON. I would still ignore it for the sake of consistancy.

 

[Iku Rex]

1.) If you think this argument is easily solved or that there is a clear answer, you're wrong. 6 months of constant arguments, conflicting answers and unclear text say the opposite.

Can you give an example of a DnD rules argument that's easily solved? Remember, all I have to do to make it "unclear" is to refuse to acknowledge the rules as written and insist that well-known game terms mean something completely different from what they normally do "in this case".

"Your hit points" do not refer only to "rolled hit points" (or "base hit points") in any DnD rule or definition. Simply declaring that polymorph is the sole exception does not make the issue "unclear".

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

Seems to bad for me when the wizard with 10 Con shapes into a bird to run away and die why he lose 2hplvl
the same wiz shapes into a fire giant and gain 14 hplvl is unbalanced for a 4lvl spell even all others benefits.

The baleful polymorf will be more dangerous if the hit points change
In PHB says the polymorf do not change hit points

 

[youspoonybard]

Balemorph is still fine.

It's a 5th level "save or die" that doesn't actually kill you. Kinda like Tasha's Hideous Laughter, really, except it lasts longer. HP changes don't really affect it much

 

[Kalanyr]

You can't have less than 1/hp per HD (not counting damage) no matter how bad your con score is, so you're not going to polymorph and die without knowing it.