I see Skip's redefined Polymorph again...

[Plane Sailing]

Maybe the only issue could be that a high-level druid with Natural spell could afford to have a very low Con and stay wildshaped all day long to make up for it.

Just one of the reasons why I don't allow the Natural Spell feat in my campaign. If you want to spend all day in animal shape and still cast stuff, prepare spells with Still Spell and Silent Spell!

 

[Thanee]

Just one of the reasons why I don't allow the Natural Spell feat in my campaign. If you want to spend all day in animal shape and still cast stuff, prepare spells with Still Spell and Silent Spell!

Looking at the power of druids in 3.5 that's certainly a reasonable step.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mikebr99]

If the "hit points don't change" clause wasn't in there, there would be circumstances under which your hit points would change. For example, a Medium construct wizard changing into a Large construct wizard would gain 10 hit points. So it's not like that clause doesn't do anything.

Would you be so kind and elaborate on this a bit more? On the construct Wizard part...

Mike

 

[Camarath]

Would you be so kind and elaborate on this a bit more? On the construct Wizard part...

Half-Golems?

 

[mikebr99]

Half-Golems?

Thanks Camarath... would you know what book that template is in?

Mike

 

[Camarath]

Thanks Camarath... would you know what book that template is in?

The MM2 along with the Nimblewright which I believe one could also make a Wizard out of.

 

[mikebr99]

The MM2 along with the Nimblewright which I believe one could also make a Wizard out of.

Thanks Camarath.

 

[Silveras]

Guys, this is a simple one. According to the spell polymorph, "The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form..." Hit Points, which are based on class, level, and creature type, remain the same, as per the spell's description. Bonus Hit Points, which are based on Con, change.

I think that is the first time anyone has made any formal distinction that way. All other references that I am aware of treat the hp from Con as part of the base. Temporary Hit Points (as granted by the Aid spell) have their own name.

As mentioned by Caliban, the Glossary does contain an entry describing the hp from a Con change as an "effective hit point increase". However, as written, that neither implies nor states that the term "hit points" refers to anything but the total of [rolled + Con adjustment].

Now, if the DMG errata item actually said "hit points refers to rolled race/class hit dice without consideration of Con adjustment" or evn "base hit points (without Con adjustment)" or the like, it would be much clearer.

 

[jgsugden]

I really have no idea why I'm bothering to try, but let me give you folks a few things to think about:

1.) If you think this argument is easily solved or that there is a clear answer, you're wrong. 6 months of constant arguments, conflicting answers and unclear text say the opposite.

2.) If you can't see a clearly correct answer for your game right now, just pick one and try it out. If it works, go with it. If it doesn't, go with the other one.

3.) There is no correct answer. The lead designer of the PHB hinted at the way he runs the spell. Other designers working on the book have said they play it the other way. That means that there is no clear concensus. No single right answer. There should be a clear answer for something this important, but there is not. Have your group make a decision and move on. If you really want to see this clarified, contact custserv and request more errata for the PHB.

 

[mikebr99]

I really have no idea why I'm bothering to try,

I don't either jgsugden...
This is why we're here... the debate!


Mike