I see Skip's redefined Polymorph again...

[mikebr99]

Your hit points are the total number of hit points you currently have. Some things normally affect HPs such as damage and changes in Con. But Alter Self states that your HPs "remain the same" as before you used the spell thus IMO preventing the normal increase in HPs for the spells change in Con.

Polymorph isn't changing your CON (or your size for that matter). It is giving you a NEW one. So alter your current totals for hps, concentration, & FORT etc.

Mike

 

[DarkMaster]

Your hit points are the total number of hit points you currently have. Some things normally affect HPs such as damage and changes in Con. But Alter Self stats that your HPs "remain the same" as before you used the spell thus IMO preventing the normal increase in HPs for the spells change in Con.

Yes I understand that they don't want to change the HP even if your constitution went from 10 to 30, but looking at the mechanic of the game it looks like a big ugly patch. That is why I don't care about their ruling and play with what I feel more logical within the context of the rule, none of my player ever complains even if it is they are disadvantaged by it.

 

[Camarath]

I am saying that, w/alter self, nothing changes, so therefore, your saves, attacks and hps don't change.

Polymorph does change stuff, so things that are modified by that stuff DO change.

What I am saying is that because nothing in Polymorph states that provision from Alter Self that requires your HP to remain the same does not apply that provision still applies.

 

[Camarath]

Polymorph isn't changing your CON (or your size for that matter). It is giving you a NEW one. So alter your current totals for hps, concentration, & FORT etc.

But the spell is stated to work as a spell with a specific provision against changing your HP and nothing in the spell alters that provision.

 

[Iku Rex]

Polymorph isn't changing your CON (or your size for that matter). It is giving you a NEW one. So alter your current totals for hps, concentration, & FORT etc.

Why? The rules clearly tell us to use "your" (or "the character's" or "the creature's") Con for for "hps, concentration, & FORT etc"...

Say, does alter self give you a NEW Con? Do the rules say anything about that?

(Sure, it says that you retain your Con, but that's just pointless flavor text, right? On the other hand, you do get "physical qualities"...)

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Just to take the question in a slightly different direction:

How many players - the ones who insist that Con changes affect hit points - also adjust them down for a lower Con? Or adjust Reflex saves if their polymorphed Dex is lower?

What prompted this question was the idea of polymorphing into a rust monster. Its rust ability is Ex, so it's available when polymorphed. Unfortunately, the rust monster only has a 13 Con, which is much lower than the sorcerer character I was playing. Fortunately, my group plays according to the rule that hit points do not change, but it would have made an interesting trade-off otherwise.

 

[DanMcS]

How many players - the ones who insist that Con changes affect hit points - also adjust them down for a lower Con? Or adjust Reflex saves if their polymorphed Dex is lower?

All the consistent ones. For instance, everyone in every group I've played 3e/3.5 with.

 

[youspoonybard]

You've always had to do that when Wildshaping - for reflex saves, attack rolls, and the like.

Not all the best combat forms have super stats.

I think that's why the Druid (w/MotW) didn't catch on 3.0. It takes a lot of work to organize all that stuff. But after the buffing they got in 3.5...

 

[mikebr99]

What I am saying is that because nothing in Polymorph states that provision from Alter Self that requires your HP to remain the same does not apply that provision still applies.

But polymorph trumps that by giving you a new CON, based on your new form... I think that answers that... sorry your question or point is a little confusing.


Mike

 

[mikebr99]

Just to take the question in a slightly different direction:

How many players - the ones who insist that Con changes affect hit points - also adjust them down for a lower Con? Or adjust Reflex saves if their polymorphed Dex is lower?

What prompted this question was the idea of polymorphing into a rust monster. Its rust ability is Ex, so it's available when polymorphed. Unfortunately, the rust monster only has a 13 Con, which is much lower than the sorcerer character I was playing. Fortunately, my group plays according to the rule that hit points do not change, but it would have made an interesting trade-off otherwise.

1) All my players do..
2) Just to clarify, the Rust thingy is a special attack, not a special ability, that is why it is useable while polymorphed.

Mike