D&D 5E I think the era of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons had it right. (not talking about the rules).

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I can't remember the exact math at the height of DDi subscribership, but at the point where 4e content was ghost, and next was being playtested, there were 80+k subs, at least. Not forum accounts who had at some point subscribed, but active subs.

Cheapest DDi got was a yearly sub for about 100$, IIRC. That is, bare minimum, 8 million a year. Wotc had the worst luck ever with that whole set of tools (guy running the company making them died, for a start, if I'm not mistaken).

If not for that, IMO, there would be digital tools right now. That DDi subscriber money was with the most divisive edition of DnD. 5e may be the most popular RPG ever released. I'm sorry, but even if the percentages were lower, the players base is so much larger it would still be huge money.

They would just just have to not sink so much money into a trainwreck of development, and I figure they're pretty gunshy about that now.

But yeah, we don't "need" a character builder, but we also don't "need" published adventures. Need isn't why they sell. Nor is the builder, as such, what sells. It's the package.

In 5e, it would be more about the monster, encounter, and adventure building tools, and tools for codifying and keeping track of optional rules and houserules and the like.

And the magazine content. I get a lot less out of following these people on twitter than I used to from subscribing to DDi. A LOT less. Doesn't have to be anywhere eat the amount of crunch. Shouldn't be, in fact. Tell us about the Realms, post Sundering. Throw us ideas about how to run Eberron or DL or DS in 5e, and let us provide feedback, in an ongoing dialogue. hell, convert stuff from older editions and showcase it there a month or two before putting it on DMSguild, so we can critique it.

Combine that with what is in D+ already, and the tools, and I'll subscribe again. And if even 1/2 the percentage of the player base as in the 4e era does as well, it will be profitable.
 

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Mirtek

Hero
This did not exist. The fact that it did not exist was a problem, as it was something they were banking on as 4e was made to work with a VTT. Then the guy making it went insane and died and it fell apart and was never released.
it did. It was just long delayed by the tragedy around the original Team but during the end they came out with a very nice and stable VTT.

The best thing was how it was fully integrated with the online CB and Monster Builder.
 

it did. It was just long delayed by the tragedy around the original Team but during the end they came out with a very nice and stable VTT.

The best thing was how it was fully integrated with the online CB and Monster Builder.

Ok prove it exists. Cause I don't think it does.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Shameless self advertisement... but you are totally right after all.

However the newest dragon magazine was quite useful. The links to digital offerings were amazing. There is a free website of ambience sound. Everything free. I didn't know about that and am very eager to use it in the next session which hopefully will be soon.

I second this shameless self-promo -- EN5ider is a great resource with lots of tidbits to add to a game.

The new Dragon I keep needing to check out, but the first two or three issues left a bad taste, and I just cant bring myself to re-download it.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated


Henry

Autoexreginated
To Corpsetaker's other points, I'll submit that IMO it was even better in 2000-2003, which saw a character gen released with the new game, plenty more released via the OGL, (some very complete ones before WotC cracked down on all the IP violations) , and tons of support both by WotC and third parties - talk about your second Golden Ages.

But I do think WotC is doing SOMETHING right, because D&D is more in the mainstream consciousness than it has been in 30+ years - and you don't even have to be a SATANIST to play it, now! :)
 


PMárk

Explorer
I can't remember the exact math at the height of DDi subscribership, but at the point where 4e content was ghost, and next was being playtested, there were 80+k subs, at least. Not forum accounts who had at some point subscribed, but active subs.

Cheapest DDi got was a yearly sub for about 100$, IIRC. That is, bare minimum, 8 million a year. Wotc had the worst luck ever with that whole set of tools (guy running the company making them died, for a start, if I'm not mistaken).

If not for that, IMO, there would be digital tools right now. That DDi subscriber money was with the most divisive edition of DnD. 5e may be the most popular RPG ever released. I'm sorry, but even if the percentages were lower, the players base is so much larger it would still be huge money.

They would just just have to not sink so much money into a trainwreck of development, and I figure they're pretty gunshy about that now.

But yeah, we don't "need" a character builder, but we also don't "need" published adventures. Need isn't why they sell. Nor is the builder, as such, what sells. It's the package.

In 5e, it would be more about the monster, encounter, and adventure building tools, and tools for codifying and keeping track of optional rules and houserules and the like.

And the magazine content. I get a lot less out of following these people on twitter than I used to from subscribing to DDi. A LOT less. Doesn't have to be anywhere eat the amount of crunch. Shouldn't be, in fact. Tell us about the Realms, post Sundering. Throw us ideas about how to run Eberron or DL or DS in 5e, and let us provide feedback, in an ongoing dialogue. hell, convert stuff from older editions and showcase it there a month or two before putting it on DMSguild, so we can critique it.

Combine that with what is in D+ already, and the tools, and I'll subscribe again. And if even 1/2 the percentage of the player base as in the 4e era does as well, it will be profitable.

I'd sooooo much pay for this.
 

PMárk

Explorer
To Corpsetaker's other points, I'll submit that IMO it was even better in 2000-2003, which saw a character gen released with the new game, plenty more released via the OGL, (some very complete ones before WotC cracked down on all the IP violations) , and tons of support both by WotC and third parties - talk about your second Golden Ages.

Recently re-reading the 2e/3e Ravenloft books. Good times.

But I do think WotC is doing SOMETHING right, because D&D is more in the mainstream consciousness than it has been in 30+ years - and you don't even have to be a SATANIST to play it, now! :)

They seems to be managing the brand right. Or at least successfully hitting the current zeitgeist and making good marketing. I'm giving full credit for that, it's not an easy task, especially after 4e.

It's just the game itself and the settings don't really get much official support from WotC. I'm really hoping it'll be better in a couple of years, that these years are really just the building of a strong foundation. But I'm a little tired holding my breath. And how much time we should wait? 2-3 years? 5? While other companies making tons of interesting content, even for using the system of 5e?
@doctorbadwolf 's idea, or something similar would be enough. Hell, a fraction of that would be enough! Just a steady trickle of content, some setting gazetteer (a proper gazetteer, with story hooks and locations and interesting NPCs), or a short story here, a little player option or thematic alternate or expanded rule there. Just some effort that shows the other settings an concepts aren't in the dustbin entirely. I just won't accept that there is no middle road between the old days' treadmill and the current situation.

Or, If they really want to double down on APs, for hell's sake, do it at least something akin to Paizo and cram content in beside the actual adventure in a form that is transparent and modular!

The way it is it might be successful, in a business sense, but for me it's so less a great game than it could be.

And the novels thing. Again, really-really hoping it's just a restructuring, or whatnot. Or else, wooo. Double wooo.

I might add that I could fully imagine that they are wanting all those above things, but they just can't do them, because they don't have the necessary staff, or the demands from above are too harsh, their position and the future of the game is still on the edge and they can't afford anything, but the absolutely most safe solutions. Everyone likes french fries and burger but i rather won't have D&D as the real McD of the RPG industry. It's not the end of the world yet, but if things won't change (again, not big, 180 degree changes, or returning to the treadmill, just tangential changes) in a couple of years, i'll be done with it. There is a point, when I'm bored with the PHB, with a watered-down FR and another retelling/re-imagining of some classic adventure or iconic trope every half a year.
 

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