D&D 5E I think the era of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons had it right. (not talking about the rules).

[Corpsetaker]

It depends. If your target audience is the most casual and new gamer, it could work. I saw that in a martial arts school, when the school's main profile is the beginner-intermediate classes. It means that there is a lot of casual practitioners, who are there for a little sword-swinging and the community, but the fallout is also high and there's a lot less experienced practitioners and researchers, most of them (90+ %) are instructors. It works, because there's always enough new blood coming in, but it's offerings for experienced people are much more limited. It has a skewed demography. It's not a McDojo, it's a good school, but it has a certain focus. I might add, that it has far-far more students than other more "elitist", more competition, or research focused groups.

I think D&D recently is heading that way as an easy to access, easy gateway rpg. I don't say it isn't a good strategy from a purely business standpoint. It's just makes it a less interesting rpg product on the long run. I think if things staying this way, we'll see a trend of gamers migrating to other games if they're staying with the hobby for longer than 2-3 years.
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It's always been an easy gateway and has since the beginning. It's all about the presentation. We are in 2016 which is the era of social media and yet Wizards still hasn't figured out how to present the game in a way that start here for beginners and still allows us veteran players to continue on.

The Pathfinder beginner boxset is the best on the market and Wizards should have really done theirs that way. You can use media to steer beginners in the right direction. It's kind of like only having a "bunny hill" at the ski resort because there are some people who don't know how to ski and giving the experts no other choice since that is the only hill to use.

 

[PMárk]

Something like that.

The simpler rules are certainly helping to make it more easy to access for newcomers. It's just easier to get non-gamer people to play something simpler, because they are here for the story and the experience of gaming. However, while 5e is simpler than 3e/PF I think people put a little too much emphasis on that. It helps, but there are a lot of more beginner-friendly games. Let's face it, for people, who are not already interested in rpgs, even systems like WoD's really simple one is daunting, because they are not interested in the game. But if the social environment is favorable, like now, having an easier-to learn system helps, because it allows those people to experience the collective storytelling and playing a character thing with minimal system-learning task. And again, let's face it, most of those people won't stay for a long time. It's the beginner's sieve. For them not having more settings with material and not having more character options is indifferent, because they just want to play occasionally and in a casual way. For them WotC's current method is ideal and I think they are the main target audience.

Also, it is a viable route, to make the game financially successful, since usually the products and companies who are targeting that audience are having more costumers than the ones with more specialist stuff. Plainly because there's a lot more casual hobbyists and dabblers than dedicated ones. However, it doesn't necessarily make the game a better one. Like I said, McD is very successful, but it doesn't make better food, than the family-run burgerist (sorry, I don't know the proper term for that) at the street corner. I agree that WotC could do both, but they aren't figured it out how yet.

Honestly, I think the main problem is the culture of how people view rpgs in general. For example Vampire was famously the "green marble wall", but it was never a problem for me. I started with the corebook, then read what caught my interest. Same with D&D. I just never experienced the intimidating factor of "too much material". Good gateway products is all you need, good corebooks, good intro adventures, good beginner boxes. I just don't get how more material for dedicated people are bad after that. Oh, and good community. I think the wors monster we have to kill, if we want more material is the collective notion of you have to read all the material to be a viable player/GM.

 

[Blue]

Heh, I quickly run through the list of possible products, so as far as WotC is concerned:

- Don't make other setting books, because you'd cannibalize sales. If fans want to play them, there's the old material.
- Don't make FR books, because people are fed up with FR, it got re-making in every edition.
- Don't make novels, because it's not profitable enough.
- Don't make crunch books because people don't want bloat and you'd shorten the edition's lifespan and 3rd parties and DMsG got that covered.
- Don't make fluff books, because people don't want to pay for setting specific fluff for their homebrew.
- Don't make short adventures, because it's not good to FLGS and not profitable.
- don't make long adventures, because another save-the world campaign every half year is boring and putting setting information in them only is problematic.
- Don't make monster books, because 3rd parties and DMsG got that covered too.
- Don't make in-house applications and gaming aids, because again, 3rd parties got that covered.

So, basically... don't do anything! Just sit on the IP, sell the corebooks, put out long adventures and organized play material and focus on managing the brand via social media and streaming, etc...

Didn't mean to get you roiled up, my original post was somewhat negative because I'm just so sick and tired of the Realms.

But I'm not advocating what you seem to believe I am. Let me restate: Please give other settings some love, be they neglected or brand new. There are more official resources out there for FR then any other WotC setting, both in 5e and before, and I'd love to see something else get updated instead of spending more of your limited resources coming out with more FR.

 

[PMárk]

Not a problem! I'm pretty much agreeing with you. The thing I wanted to reflect is that people here generally find objections of why WotC doesn't or shouldn't make specific type of products and there is an excuse for every product type. I just wanted to say that there is just as much reason to DO those products.

I think the best way to give other settings some support, while keeping FR as the flagship is how the MtG Planeshift documents were done. I just don't see any reason why the other settings shouldn't get similar pdf supplements in the future if they don't want, or can't do full CGs. The DMsG is a good platform for it and I think thex would be fairly successful.

 

[darjr]

I love it just where it is. I haven't seen more people playing ever. EVER. I just ran a play test group that I had to limit to only local DM's running public games, that I know personally, and even then I had to split to two different nights. At the same time the local university DM's group was meeting at my house to plan more of their big group multi table university campaign. Lots of new kids getting into D&D for the first time. Wonderful stuff. I've never seen it better. Not even in the hey day when I was a kid.

WotC is doing something VERY VERY right. I say keep on keeping on.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I think that it'S safe to say that while we may categorize WotC's release strategy for 5E so far, that is not to say that we can categorize it for the future.

They're pushing the core books, supplemented by the long adventure path style books, yeah...but each adventure book has been a bit different. Each one has focused on different areas or portrayed the adventure in a different way.

When the time is right, they'll introduce another setting, and another splatbook. The slow and steady approach seems to be working so far, so I say they stick with it. But the long time fans need to relax....let them get there. We'll see the kind of variety of content that people are calling for.

We just won't see it all at once.

 

[PMárk]

As I said their strategy is good for bring in new people yes. But that's not, or shouldn't be the sole and only goal. The game should have more retention factor and at least some interesting material for people who don't want the generic default game. It could be done with a very minimal effort, it doesn't have to be the bloat of past times. Do pdfs, do booklets, license things out, do a subscription-based magazine! Anything!

I don't want D&D to be unsuccessful or turning WotC into a small publishing company. I think the current success is great. I just also think the diversity of the game, the settings, the novels, all of that are values worth keeping in some form, even if the main focus is financial success. Otherwise, it may be successful, may be played by a lot of casual gamers, but it will be bland compared to other games.

D&D being the most generic, most bland, therefore most financially safe and successful rpg is a plan, but it's a plan that plays into the worst consumerism. I think the game should have room for more, because saying "it's the price of popularity, if you want anything other than bland cheesburger and french fries, play something else" is just sad to me. And then D&D and it's past diversity really dies, because who doesn't want "default D&D" migrates to other games. Ok, this way other games get more fans, which is good, it's a tide and ultimately could be a good thing for the whole industry, but we will lose great things in the process.

And when the current zeitgeist pops, because it will, eventually, WotC might find itself with a significantly smaller dedicated fanbase.

 

[PMárk]

I think that it'S safe to say that while we may categorize WotC's release strategy for 5E so far, that is not to say that we can categorize it for the future.

They're pushing the core books, supplemented by the long adventure path style books, yeah...but each adventure book has been a bit different. Each one has focused on different areas or portrayed the adventure in a different way.

When the time is right, they'll introduce another setting, and another splatbook. The slow and steady approach seems to be working so far, so I say they stick with it. But the long time fans need to relax....let them get there. We'll see the kind of variety of content that people are calling for.

We just won't see it all at once.

That's understandable, but I think it'd be better to do it in smaller quantities over time, but steadily. If I have to wait another 5 years for the material I want to see, well, I'll be over playing other games and spend my money at other companies.

What about this: publish setting/insert what you want article pdfs monthly, or bi-monthly, or even quarterly. Not playtest documents, but proper ones, like tha planeshift stuff with fluff and meat. When enough gathered for a substantial book, publish it as a big hardcover with some additional content/restructuring/artwork/etc.

This way there would be a steady stream of content, without the need of early bloat, you'll get the big shiny hardcovers on bookshelves, but avoid the need to churn out CGs and in the meantime you could still focus on adventures.

I'd acknowledge an answer of "we don't have the manpower, or money yet". That's okay, it's okay to build a strong foundation. Just show the fans that you are intending to do stuff. Do it the way that's affordable, just do it!

 

[hawkeyefan]

[MENTION=6804619]PMárk[/MENTION] I feel like you've answered your own question. You mentioned the zeitgeist and how it will eventually pop. I think you're likely right. So in order to deal with that, do you think slow controlled expansion is the way to go, or do you think that steady and rapid expansion would be best?

 

[PMárk]

I think the best way would be something in the middle. Slow, controlled, but steady expansion over time with big, shiny summing-up books when enough content gathered to do one. Give the dedicated fans smaller quantities of material over time to maintain their interests, while primarily focusing on the most popular things.

Or publish the big adventures as usual, but do a tie-in pdf document on DMsG that details the region where the adventure happens but places that doesn't play a significant role in the adventure and gives some thematic player options. Paizo's doing the same and it works. For example, I'd love to read a page or two about the High Forest, which only got mentioned in SKT in a very short pharagraph.

Or they could have do a "Primer to Ravenloft" as a tie-in for CoS, that updates the setting's specific rules to 5e and gives a short summary of the other domains, while pointing at the old books on DMsG, or saying "stay tuned, more detailed material will coming". Then covering the domains in pdf, once in a while, and when enough piled up, publish the new Domains of Dread book.

Really, there's much space between no content and bloat content and right now I feel WotC is doing only one end of the spectrum.