I think we need a new DM
robberbaron
First Post
Point 1 makes me think that this DM is REALLY stoked over his plot.
Either that or he thinks his players may not be smart enough to figure stuff out for themselves.
Definitely compete as DM. Show your group how you'd do things. Don't sweat it if he whinges about your style; if everybody else is having fun there's something wrong with him, not you.
Either that or he thinks his players may not be smart enough to figure stuff out for themselves.
Definitely compete as DM. Show your group how you'd do things. Don't sweat it if he whinges about your style; if everybody else is having fun there's something wrong with him, not you.
Keeper of Secrets
First Post
The idea of not wanting you to play certain classes or races is not that scandalous. He might just be uncomfortable running a game with some material he is unfamiliar with. Do the other players agree with you? Are you having any fun at all?
I actually think you running something for a brief time is a good idea - even if it is not D&D so that your GM gets an idea of how you would do it. It seems like an interesting and non confrontational approach.
I actually think you running something for a brief time is a good idea - even if it is not D&D so that your GM gets an idea of how you would do it. It seems like an interesting and non confrontational approach.
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for the DM, just because we're only getting one side of the story, and it may be worth analyzing things further.
1) Constant railroading.
Railroading is a bad thing, but is occasionally necessary (especially for new players). The game just isn't fun if the PCs decide to spend every night in a tavern getting drunk. Does the DM control all aspects of the plot, or does he just force you guys back on the track of the story if you get sidetracked?
2) The omnipotent DMPC.
Sometimes, this is the DM trying to prepare you for the future. I have been known to throw in an NPC with the right spells prepared to show the party what to expect the next day. For example, if you're adventuring and randomly encounter a hive of salamanders, the NPC will be there to help with cold spells (since you didn't know you would be facing them, and might nto be prepared). Be ready to prepare the right spells/equipment for the next day, though, as the NPC may leave before the next wave of salamander attacks.
The individualized XP is just bad. I can't think of any way to justify that.
3) Ignore the players: We want to play a higher level campaign, with odd things such as drow, binders, and so on as PCs. He has banned anything he considers "weird".
I would resect the DMs decision on this one. He's obviously having problems holding things together with standard material at low levels. He's probably not experienced enough or equiped to handle a high level party with lots of variants.
4) Randomly cursing the PCs: I have had a lot of crap happen to my PCs.
In a game where the PCs are at very different power levels, this can be a way to balance the party. I've been known to curse the munchkin(s) of a group while leaving other characters untouched. Now, I also make sure to warn players of this ahead of time, so we're on the same page with it. Trying talking to the DM to find out his reasons for doing this.
Of course, I'm making a number of assumptions about your group here. But be hopeful, for the group may yet be salvaged.
1) Constant railroading.
Railroading is a bad thing, but is occasionally necessary (especially for new players). The game just isn't fun if the PCs decide to spend every night in a tavern getting drunk. Does the DM control all aspects of the plot, or does he just force you guys back on the track of the story if you get sidetracked?
2) The omnipotent DMPC.
Sometimes, this is the DM trying to prepare you for the future. I have been known to throw in an NPC with the right spells prepared to show the party what to expect the next day. For example, if you're adventuring and randomly encounter a hive of salamanders, the NPC will be there to help with cold spells (since you didn't know you would be facing them, and might nto be prepared). Be ready to prepare the right spells/equipment for the next day, though, as the NPC may leave before the next wave of salamander attacks.
The individualized XP is just bad. I can't think of any way to justify that.
3) Ignore the players: We want to play a higher level campaign, with odd things such as drow, binders, and so on as PCs. He has banned anything he considers "weird".
I would resect the DMs decision on this one. He's obviously having problems holding things together with standard material at low levels. He's probably not experienced enough or equiped to handle a high level party with lots of variants.
4) Randomly cursing the PCs: I have had a lot of crap happen to my PCs.
In a game where the PCs are at very different power levels, this can be a way to balance the party. I've been known to curse the munchkin(s) of a group while leaving other characters untouched. Now, I also make sure to warn players of this ahead of time, so we're on the same page with it. Trying talking to the DM to find out his reasons for doing this.
Of course, I'm making a number of assumptions about your group here. But be hopeful, for the group may yet be salvaged.
Tedious, and after a while annoying. But far, far better than the DM who does this:WarlockLord said:
Rogue: I search the door.
DM: You find no traps.
Rogue: I open the door.
DM: Roll your Reflex save as the trap goes off. HA! You didn't say you search the doornob!
As far as DM interjections go, his arn't that bad, and likely would stop if you asked him to.
And you would be wrong to run Pun-Pun, because your object would be to destroy the game. If you don't like a game, don't play; but don't go purposefully ruining other people's fun with that object in mind.
That being said, DMPCs are millstones that rarely work. I would not be suprised that he would give them up if the group asked him to. "We know you're trying to help us, but success in adventuring is something we want to achieve without inside help from a character you're running who knows what we're going up against."
He's comfortable with the rules he knows and understands, which is standard core apparently. And that's perfectly fine. You say you don't like the way he runs low-level games; do you really expect to be happy when the same guy tries to run a much more complex game with which he's not comfortable including rules he likely doesn't understand?
Restricting full 3rd level casters is a bit of an underhanded move, but did he explain why? Was it because his campaign setting was low-magic? Could it have been a reason that wasn't, "I want to hose the players"?
This smells very much like mid-80's gaming. Random and unexplained magical effects. I wouldn't necessarily want him to stop doing these kinds of things because they do add some flavor, I'd just ask him to make sure he doesn't activate these curses because, again, "I want to hose the players". Make the NPCs vulnerable to the same sort of shenanigans.
I'd say that the first thing you'll want to do is to discard the idea that the DM is out to get you. It seems to me that he wants you guys to succeed; that's the reason he has his DMPCs help out, and when they're absent he nudges you himself. He's not being malicious, and is likely unaware that you're resentful of it. Possibly he lets off "fart bombs" and cursed goblin swords because he thinks he helps you out with the suggestions, or maybe just to make things more interesting. Maybe he hints things by way of making up for making adventuring more difficult with the fart bombs.
As far as the swordsage goes, did he mention what the adventure was going to be before you made the one-on-one fighter, or did you walk into the room with a duelist and realize you have to fight formations of enemies? Because if it was the former, then he's not really at fault; at least, he's to blame as much as a DM who allows someone to play a rogue in the Age of Worms adventure path (there's stuff for you to do, but you'll be at a massive disadvantage). If it's the latter, then nobody's to blame; you had your character and he had his adventure developed separately, neither with the intension of being disruptive. If he told you you should change your character, then is he not playing the role of the DM who doesn't want to see a marginalized PC, such as a rogue's player in the Age of Worms?
On some levels I sympathize with you; you're in a game that you like yet is frustrating. You both want to change and don't want to. But what this DM is doing doesn't really seem to be all that bad. There doesn't seem any malice in any of it, and it's very likely that he's unaware that you don't appreciate the help he's trying to give you. Make it clear to him you'd prefer not to have help.
---
Re: 5th level fighter v 3rd level PCs
It is certainly possible for something to have gone wrong for the PCs here in such a way that your DM thinks you were unfair... as possible as it was for your DM to hand out a Sword of Berserking that functions intermittently (something clearly possible RAW) while you cry foul. Whether or not he had his rules straight in his head doesn't matter, you seem to already have lost trust in him regardless of what happens.
I recommend that you all get together and ask him to stop helping you, with suggestions or with DMPCs, and then you submit yourselves to the likelihood that the DM will know something you don't. Trust him. I'd very much recommend this because you say you very much enjoy the campaign otherwise.
EDIT:
Your DM should be judged on what his is doing for this campaign. If he has abandoned XP-by-kill then this evidence of his poor DMing ought not be brought against him. This is evidence that he was a bad DM in the past. He doesn't do it anymore. Doesn't that mean he's gotten better?
Last edited:
vongarr
First Post
WarlockLord said:
Why is he railroading? Have you fellows missed something he thought was obvious before, and now he feels like you need pointers to find that hook? Or have you done a 180 on him, and decided you felt like doing something contrary to what you had previously said you did, ruining the adventure he prepared?
See above. Does he have previous bad experiences?
Not going to defend him there.
It's his game, and he can say yea or nay to whatever he wants. Personally, the only thing I have outright banned are abberation feats and half-dragons. But that 2nd level spell stuff sounds like some shenanigans to me. Maybe he had something that a 2nd level spell would wreck in the first few adventures?
That cursing stuff also sounds like some shenanigans. The best way to deal with this is to talk to the person. Don't ursurp his seat by showing up with an adventure showing how wonderful you are. Just talk to him. If he isn't willing to hear you out, or throws a fit, then maybe it's time to ask him to play. But if he doesn't react badly and does change his ways, then it's a win for everyone.
And I think swordsages can might mobs of guys pretty well.
Just look at it this way. You're not paying the guy. Nor is he paying you. So both of you deserve respect and dialogue with complaints. Many times I have tried to get my players to get into some kind of detailed plot. It never sticks. So what do I do? I send them to the Tomb of Horrors.
That's an idea. Give your DM Expedition to Castle Ravenloft as a "gift" and have him run it. Or some similar module where you'll be a decent level.
I suggest that if you (and the other players) are not having fun, you (or someone else) take a turn at DMing. Be warned however that while DMing can be fun and rewarding it also requires a lot of work, so be perpared. Even though I have mainly DMed for over 20 years now, I like setting down at another DMs table and seeing how they handle the game. I have learned something from every person who has ever DMed for me (even if its how not to do something).
Varianor Abroad
Explorer
I think you should send him a link to this thread. Then we'll get his opinion. 
Similar Threads
