I think we're done with 4E

[Piratecat]

I'll have no hesitation whatsoever using fewer monsters or monsters with 3/4 of the regular hit points. I don't do it all the time, but it keeps the game running at the pace I want.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Earthdawn is a fun game. You should take it down off the shelf, dust it off and learn the system.

I agree. Earthdawn is my favorite system of all time. The modules written for it are superb if you can still find them. The only reason I'm not running it anymore is because I found it difficult to design my own adventures. But I haven't had time to create my own adventures for any system in a long time and only run published adventures nowadays.

Run modules for 3e. Seriously, there's a ton of good ones. This simple hack saved me from burnout. My player loves it and I have so many starter towns that I don't even need to do much world-building.

My experience varies. As I said, I only run published adventures. I still found it difficult to prepare for a 3E game. Now, I will admit that I like add-on material. And the way third edition was designed made it hard to allow all supplements. [Insert argument from others about how I was a Stupid DM for allowing all splat books, therefor it was ME that broke 3E, not the multiclass and feat mechanics.] It was either too much work deciding what needed to be banned or (with my own 3E 'say yes' to splat books policy) too much work to make sure encounters were a good challenge (not too deadly, not a cakewalk).

I always liked WFRP's career system and even looked at ways I could import it into other systems. But the mechanics were too gritty for our group.

Never played C&C.

 

[Jack99]

3e would welcome you home, you cheating bastage! (heehee)

Earthdawn is a fun game. You should take it down off the shelf, dust it off and learn the system.

It's not cheating when the other women is so much better and more beautiful than your wife. Then it's just inevitable.

On a more serious note, I want to commend the OP for actually basing his opinion on more than 4 hours of playtest. I hope you find what you are looking for elsewhere.

 

[ExploderWizard]

We might be reaching the same point once KOTS is done. The problem of dragging fights is the result of too much balance being built into the system.

Combats are less exciting and more of a grind because they are so balanced. Knowing that nothing that your character or a monster can do but cause X amount of damage makes it too easy to spot these turning points.

Ending the fight at that point by simply declaring a winner makes the whole struggle feel like a boxing match thats won by decision. It gets the game moving again but feels so unsatisfying.

On either side of the screen I prefer being in combats where that turning point could happen in any round for either side and that once it does, the finish is close to follow, win or lose.

If the price for staying engaged and awake for combats is a higher mortality rate then sign me up. Characters are potato chips, crunch all you want, then make more.

 

[fuindordm]

Another thumbs-up for Earthdawn from me. There's a world with tons of flavor (and lots of awesome sourcebooks), a magic system whose rules have a impact on everything in the world, and lots of cool options for players.

It even has healing surges... I mean, 'recovery tests'.

I heard rumors that Earthdawn is getting reincarnated as a 4E-compatible game.

 

[xechnao]

I am not playing 4e but I do not get the problem regarding the turning point. As soon as it is clear which side is winning check perception for the losing side. If they succeed they should try to withdraw or retreat. Players could chase them or not but if they chase them they could risk falling into traps or ambushes and what not.

 

[jokamachi]

Hey, don't feel bad. I playtested 4e, played it for months affter that, then finally gave up for many of the same reasons. It just wasn't my cup of tea. And thank God I didn't waste any money on that system.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I heard rumors that Earthdawn is getting reincarnated as a 4E-compatible game.

Not a rumor:

Age of Legends 4E

And according to their forums the designers are shooting for a 2009 release. [Although they make it clear that their company policy is to not announce release dates.]

 

[wedgeski]

Ending the fight at that point by simply declaring a winner makes the whole struggle feel like a boxing match thats won by decision. It gets the game moving again but feels so unsatisfying.

An interesting observation, but not borne out by my experience. The ultimate decision point tends to rest on what creature roles are left in the fight: artillery that has no defensive line, brutes locked down by a controller and taking punishment from everyone else, etc. If multiple creature roles are left on the battlefield, I would never handwave the fight. Ultimately, the decision tends to be pretty easy, and my players don't ever seem unsatisfied; by the time we're declaring the fight over and discussing attrition, the most exciting elements of the encounter are already over. I also always have the option of declaring the fight over by having free and able-bodied opponents make a break for it.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I don't get these kind of complaints.

And yet they seem to come up so regularly...

I can really understand if anyone doesn't like a system (there wouldn't be a point to have so many different systems if everyone has the same taste), but complaining about that 4E has no options in combat is simply wrong.

Every system has its adherents who blame the complainers who blame the system. It's foolish to wholly blame either the system or the complainers (and equally foolish to think that one system will suit all tastes).

The hit point grind was something that I'm not too keen on. The players had seen it and as I said had learned to identify almost the exact point when they knew they'd win.

4e removed the swingyness from combat. It should not come as a surprise that everyone is able to predict the outcome. 4e is designed to be predictable-- one of the reasons DMs love it.

The trend seems to be that DMs love 4e because it is so predictable, forgiving, and easy to run-- but players quickly tire of it. I think this might have to do with the removal of "mastery."

And that's not simply an issue of "no splatbooks yet." If you are the sort of player for whom predictable = boring, you have to hope that the splatbooks unbalance the carefully balanced system. (Then you'll have a new set of complainers.)