I think we're done with 4E

[Nebulous]

WFRP2 is Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd edition.

For whoever said that they weren't that keen on the WFRP base setting, I used WFRP2 to do a "Pirates of the Caribbean - Warhammer Style" that was tremendous fun. I used the real world map of the Caribbean and inserted some of the Old World powers in place of their European counterparts that colonized the region.

There was action, intrigue, ships, cannons, undead, lizardfolk, giant dinosaurs. Everything a body could want!

That might have been me that said that. Maybe it's just the wording used, not so much the grim, despairing nature of it all. And i can't find a good, evocative map of the realm, that bothers me. I'm probably just looking in the wrong place.

What i considered is plopping the whole campaign wholesale into the Midnight world, which has one of my favorite maps ever. Use the names of cities and countries and whatnot, but otherwise incorporate the Warhammer gods and rules and monsters, etc.

There's another WFRP2 thread going on here.

 

[Jhaelen]

To me the value of Earthdawn is its setting otherwise whenever I'm playing Earthdawn I can't help but wonder "Why aren't we playing D&D?"

Ha! I think there is a kernel of truth in this. Currently I'm playing in an Earthdawn campaign and in a DSA campaign. In both cases I really enjoy the game until it's time for combat. Then I start wishing for the tactical depth and options available in D&D.

I'm really, really looking forward to 'Age of Legend' for that reason. I believe that may finally give me the best of both worlds!

 

[Nom]

I have a large group (8 players) and decided to give up on KotS. A lot of the mechanical variety in 4E is in encounter design; by running my own adventures, I've got a lot more room to write interesting and dynamic encounters that work with an 8 PC party. KotS is OK, but it's a dungeon crawl designed to have lots of relatively quick, tough encounters with a smaller party. That's not great when I have time for only two large, interesting encounters each night (and we play ~ monthly).

By writing my own encounters, I can introduce dynamics into the encounter. 4E encounters work best when there's something about the encounter itself that changes, either by allowing PCs to manipulate it or just in reaction to certain events. 4E is at its worst when you have two opposing groups of hp just slugging it out*. If you can get the players to go "Wow!" and react 1-2 times during each encounter, then 4E keeps a lot more freshness.

* I don't necessarily think 4E is worse at "slug-fests" than other games, but it feels worse because it seems to promise much more but slug-fests fail to deliver.

 

[Treebore]

Well you could do that, but if you add feats back in you're more or less back to 3rd edition.

No. No it doesn't. At least not necessarily. Like in my games you earn "feats" through actually attempting them. Plus you can allow a very limited number of feats into your game. Some DM's have only allowed Cleave and about 6 others into their game.

 

[justanobody]

I don't get these kind of complaints. There is nearly no system that gives you so many build in options in a fight than in 4E

You mean limits your options to things only spelled out in concise rules rather than allow you the depth of your imagination to try things with?

I would suggest AD&D, and if you cannot get your hands on the older books I here this OSRIC thing is like the core books in one place and is free. I am liking what I am reading form it. But of course I am biased towards AD&D so take that into consideration with my suggestion.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

I would suggest AD&D

I played AD&D back in the 80's and remember it nowadays as always been a blast. I've still got all the books, saved the lot of them. We played fast and loose with the rules. Combats seemed fast, even with multiple opponents. It's one of the reasons I'm thinking C&C. Of course I may just be looking back and remembering the good bits. We rarely got any characters anywhere near to 10th level before things fell apart and we started again. If I reread the rules now they seem kind of restrictive when compared to 3E and 4E.

Wow, nostalgia trip. Sometimes it's good to remember all those dark nights and afternoons playing D&D as a kid.

Whatever system we end up with I want combat to be alot faster than we've recently achieved in 3E and 4E.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Whatever system we end up with I want combat to be alot faster than we've recently achieved in 3E and 4E.

If speed is what you are looking for then I would suggest Moldvay/Cook/Marsh Basic & Expert or Labyrinth Lord. The system is simple enough to add your own character build options without all the combat rules baggage that comes with 3E or 4E. Your system mastery player will probably be bored with this option though.

 

[LostSoul]

You mean limits your options to things only spelled out in concise rules rather than allow you the depth of your imagination to try things with?

It really doesn't, though. I think 4e has the best rules for adjudicating actions on the fly.

 

[Benimoto]

My usual rules as a (relatively new) DM for 4E:

1. If the enemies have a purpose or some kind of goal, they have full HP.
2. If the enemies are simply there to battle the PCs, they're at 3/4 or so, except for VIPs and what-not.
3. Always make sure to have at least 1-2 combats include a goal (either for the PCs OR the enemies) that isn't based around wanton murder, even if it's a small thing.

I think this is good advice. If you're willing to try out a few more things, I have even a few more suggestions

4. Have maybe 1-2 combats where something happens in the middle of combat that drastically changes the combat. Reinforcements arrive (on either side), the terrain suddenly changes, or one of the monsters changes into an entirely different monster.
5. Instead of simply reducing the monsters HP by 1/4, just have the monsters make more desperate choices in combat that result in them being hit 25% more. Have them provoke more OAs and other similar attacks, as they move to attack more vulnerable targets. One complaint I commonly hear from players in this forum (although not in your post specifically) is that they never get to use their OA abilities, so this kills two birds with one stone.
6. Finally, as plenty of people have mentioned, don't be afraid to consider using a sort of morale system to end the combat early. See if you can get your players into the habit of yelling "surrender" at more civilized foes, or simply having the monsters rout and resolving the resulting mop-up with a few dice rolls.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wow, nostalgia trip. Sometimes it's good to remember all those dark nights and afternoons playing D&D as a kid.

Since there are still people playing OD&D, AD&D and so on, I think it doesn't have to stay nostalgia.