ICE and the ENnies

[eyebeams]

Aparently some people have convinced themselves that the judges have all been hand puppets of Morris. When I met them at GenCon I could have sworn they were all walking and talking under their own willpower.

That's really a absurd parody of the other position. The awards are obviously set up to have a bias. This is for a good reason, because otherwise, the awards wouldn't work. But it's not arising spontaneously from the pure-hearted sentiments of unblemished fandom.

However, the awards are totally fan controlled. They elect the judges, they vote which products are the best in which categories.

Really? Did the fans pick the judge requirements that allow industry participation or set the primary venue for awards announcements?

Of course not. That was Tim Dugger's complaint. And the response was to subject him to the virtual equivalent of a public stoning (and with, I might add, a rather relaxed moderator response time when compared to many other issues). If someone had merely told Tim that interest in promoting the awards outweighed any advantages to putting forum content for them on another board, that might have been something decent. Instead, he was treated to responses that I would at least characterize as petty, and at worst would say made his argument for him far more strongly than he could.

People can claim that it is all rigged because of ENWorld members, but if any rigging is done it is by the very people who refuse to participate in the voting process, not the people who actually vote.

Actually, nobody has a special obligation to vote, and whether or not people vote from elsewhere doesn't change the site-centric nature of it at all. It's not "rigged," but it's not neutral. It it was at a neutral site, it would be much less popular. That;s a good reason for the awards' bias, but it doesn't make that bias go away.

If people really want the ENNIE's to truly be an "industry" award then they had better get involved. OTherwise it will continue to be primarily "ENWorlders" who influence the outcome of the awards, and therefore influence the market far more than the "silent people" who refused to vote/participate.

Actually, my point is that it is an "industry" award. It's not a bona fide fan award. It's just a game company that gets a mix of game company guys and freelance guys to vote on some game company offerings. There is no point in the process where the word "game company" does not involve itself.

 

[BryonD]

The guy who popped in on this thread to remind everyone that he owns the awads and can do whatever he likes with them is presumably the same Morrus that's here. I highly doubt a Clone Saga or Bizarro Morrus is involved. .

You are implying (incorrectly) that a statement from Morrus regarding what he CAN do contradicts Mearl (correct) statement of what HAS been done.

 

[Raven Crowking]

You are implying (incorrectly) that a statement from Morrus regarding what he CAN do contradicts Mearl (correct) statement of what HAS been done.

Please do not invoke logic on a messageboard. It hurts my head.

 

[eyebeams]

You are implying (incorrectly) that a statement from Morrus regarding what he CAN do contradicts Mearl (correct) statement of what HAS been done.

Influence doesn't just consist of activity. It's a whole bunch of processes. Morrus saying, "It's my awards and this is generally how I want it to be," counts, whether or not there's a specific followup.

What you are perhaps missing, though, is that I think Morrus' desire to keep the awards here is a good thing and largely responsible for its continued success -- but merely one voice amidst a popular front it aint.

 

[diaglo]

Influence doesn't just consist of activity. It's a whole bunch of processes. Morrus saying, "It's my awards and this is generally how I want it to be," counts, whether or not there's a specific followup.

as a judge last year. all i gotta say is i find this funny. i didn't see anything from Morrus last year. heck, i didn't see most of what the other judges and some of the BoD said. i had them on my ignore list.

 

[eyebeams]

as a judge last year. all i gotta say is i find this funny. i didn't see anything from Morrus last year. heck, i didn't see most of what the other judges and some of the BoD said. i had them on my ignore list.

As a judge last year, you share responsibility for double-dipping Shackled City -- something you were able to do because of the regulations set by those people. That appears to be a major source of Tim's gripe, which he seemed to find just *hilarious*. Right?

 

[Rystil Arden]

As a judge last year, you share responsibility for double-dipping Shackled City -- something you were able to do because of the regulations set by those people. That appears to be a major source of Tim's gripe, which he seemed to find just *hilarious*. Right?

You do know that diaglo was one of the top voices among the judges last year to keep Shackled City in just one category, right? He was outvoted (and in my opinion, the judges made the right decision--for points made by GwydapLlew earlier in this thread).

 

[Raven Crowking]

You do know that diaglo was one of the top voices among the judges last year to keep Shackled City in just one category, right? He was outvoted (and in my opinion, the judges made the right decision--for points made by GwydapLlew earlier in this thread).

What the....?!?! That's like saying a film can win an Academy Award in more than one category!?!!?

 

[eyebeams]

You do know that diaglo was one of the top voices among the judges last year to keep Shackled City in just one category, right? He was outvoted (and in my opinion, the judges made the right decision--for points made by GwydapLlew earlier in this thread).

Didn't he just say he ignored all the judges and almost never talked to anybody? How does that reconcile with "top voice" exactly?

In any event, that policy led to those decisions. And trying to separate Morrus from the awards is still most fundamentally contradicted here by Morrus himself. It's his award. As I said, I don't agree with Tim's position, but it's not an irrational one, either. It's my feeling that much of what he identifies as a problem keep the awards going. But that doesn't change the fact that the awards are owned by a guy who runs a publishing company and stokes enthusaism for them here. That's neither a fan award nor an unbiased setup. *Again*, there's nothing wrong with this except for a few ragged edges and that in my opinion, the awards should settle into something more consistent. But they still work better than everything but the Diana Jones Award.

 

[Crothian]

What the....?!?! That's like saying a film can win an Academy Award in more than one category!?!!?

It does seem that some films do actually win more then one category.

For the record I don't think I was the person to first suggest moving Shackled City. But I did agree with it.