ICE and the ENnies

[ColonelHardisson]

and told to encourage those gamers who don't like the D20 system to get involved on a D20 board in order to express their opinion.

Well, I read the thread too, and here's something I clearly saw Morrus post:

So, if you mean what you preach - go talk about this on RPGnet, The Forge, RPGHost, and anywhere else you feel like it.

As Morrus also said, he doesn't want a centralized ENnies discussion board, but for the discussions to take place at any and all boards that have to do with RPGs. I just don't see how that equates to anyone having to come here to discuss the ENnies.

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

Congratulations Rasyr!

Just wanted to say congrats to Rasyr. He has just convinced me to never purchase a single ICE product ever. If they were still making Middle-Earth stuff I still wouldn't buy from ICE. I even deleted HARP Lite off my hard drive.

Kudos to you ol boy. Peace and smiles.

 

[Raven Crowking]

While I am sure that I could nit-pick and find more reasons, the above are more than enough for ICE to no long participate in the ENnies, at least not until some changes are made to the overall system.

ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”

 

[eyebeams]

ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”

One fine winter's day an ENWorld poster failed to make an informed comment and stumbled forth with a silly gaffe instead, not realizing that his parable didn't apply to a company that won two ENnies in 2004.

 

[Raven Crowking]

One fine winter's day an ENWorld poster failed to make an informed comment and stumbled forth with a silly gaffe instead, not realizing that his parable didn't apply to a company that won two ENnies in 2004.

Actually, the fine winter's day, the EN World poster did realize that the company won two ENnies in 2004, but felt that Aesop's timeless wisdom applied anyway. What the company did not do was create an awards forum such as the one EN World did, and what the company decided was sour was that awards forum.

But fear not, this poster forgives you your silly gaffe.

(EDIT: By awards forum I do not mean EN World; I mean the setup of the ENnies & the way they are administered, which is the thing being criticized.)

 

[eyebeams]

Actually, the fine winter's day, the EN World poster did realize that the company won two ENnies in 2004, but felt that Aesop's timeless wisdom applied anyway. What the company did not do was create an awards forum such as the one EN World did, and what the company decided was sour was that awards forum.

I completely believe that you're not switching goalposts post hoc. I am truly, utterly convinced that you really meant something else. Really and truly.

 

[Rel]

Raven Crowking and eyebeams, don't make any more replies to each other in this thread. Everybody else, if you don't have something substantive to contribute in a civil manner, stay out of this thread. That is all.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Deleted (sorry, cross post)

 

[billd91]

I've said it elsewhere, but in my gaming experience, the "Shackled City" incident should really be a non-issue. If the hardcover had merely been a reprint of the adventures published in Dungeon, I could see the issue. However, as the hardcover had so much additional setting information that it made me decide to establish that locale as the home base for all of my d20 campaigns, I really see it as functioning as both a setting and an adventure.

I actually like that the ENnies re-establish their categories and guidelines each year. I know that it means that there will be less of an issue of people manipulating the system, as the system is torn down and replaced annually.

I agree with this post about the SCAP issue. If a product can credibly do double-duty, why shouldn't it be nominated in both categories? Shouldn't really good cross-over products be eligible for that sort of recognition?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Rasyr (& the good people at ICE):

It might have been foolish to post Aesop without editting him first....or perhaps I should have picked a different fable. In any event, it is not that you havn't won an ENnie, or don't think that you can (so far as I know). I don't really care what's nominated for any award, or what wins. I seldom agree with the Academy Awards; I seldom agree with book reviewers. I don't buy on the basis of the ENnies.

But this is a free service. No one has the right to tell someone else how to do something that's free.

Anyone can set up an awards program. I can set up an awards program. I can throw up a page on my website and list what I think was the best in any category I want for whatever period I want.

And, probably, no one will care.

OTOH, here we have EN World, which has been going strong for a very long time, and which has provided a hell of a lot of free service to the rpg community. It isn't the only forum, and it isn't the only free forum, but it's a great forum. IMHO, at least. YMMV. It's a forum that is mostly helpful, is mostly open, is mostly friendly, and is mostly filled with good people. It has earned the good will I grant it. Again, IMHO. YMMV.

Were I to have put as much effort -- free of charge -- into the ENnies as Morrus & Co have, I don't know how I'd respond to the OP here. Incredulity, I imagine. A bit of anger, probably. Of course, I don't have the same level of class as Morrus & Co.

Frankly, why shouldn't the ENnie judges be discussed on EN World? People don't care about the ENnies if they don't care what the opinion here is. Or, at least, that's my opinion. Again, YMMV.

Don't like the way the ENnies are run? Create your own award.

Worried that no one will care if you do?

That's where Aesop comes in.


IMHO, of course. YMMV, of course.