ICE and the ENnies

[HellHound]

I agree it became a bigger issue at that time. I don't know if it has been said here or anywhere, but I beleive that the awards management have learned from the issues raised by "the Shackled City incident" and that the new goal is to avoid further events like that because of the negative press it produces.

At the same time, providing a hard and fast rule on how this will work would only provide a tool to rules lawyers to figure out how to get around it.

. . .

That said, the issue where Dextra and Razyr seem to be having problems isn't the rules and intent of the awards, but the seeming need to distance the awards from ENWorld.

As the marketing guy working with the awards now, I am privy to a lot of inside information that I am not yet at liberty to discuss (mainly because the business manager of the ENnies is not available for me to talk to at this time as she is with our eldest daughter at dance class).

But allow me to state flat-out: The intent as far as I can see it this year is to try to avoid a similar situation as "the Shackled City incident" last year. However, there is no intent to distance the awards any further from ENWorld than they already are. By breaking the branding between the awards and ENWorld, then the owner of the brand is destroying all the work that has gone into strengthening the brand name through the site and awards.

 

[jezter6]

I think this is easy. ENNIES...named for a reason. d20 board or not. Open discussion of any game system is allowed here. I've never heard otherwise. People may get banned for rude/abusive behavior, but not for talking about another system.

This is just a message board. Just because a lot of people here talk d20, doesn't mean the board is pro-d20. It's a free place, anyone can join, and spark conversation about anything as long as it's in a decent manner.

If you think coming here to win over d20 fans to another system is a good idea, I would think again. It's the users that make the site what it is. Not Russ. Not Eric. Not Hellhound and Dextra. If you want more discourse on HARP, bring people over. Let them discuss harp all they want. If enough traffic comes in, I'd bet Morrus would open a sub-forum just for it.

 

[HellHound]

Do you really think that Steve Jackson or White Wolf or ICE or any other non-d20 publisher is going to fully support something fully tied to the world's largest fan site of a competitor?

Like FanPro?

Or maybe White Wolf?

How about Black Industries?

 

[naturaltwenty]

I'm not a publisher...sure I dabble but I've got no products for sale. What are the criteria for judging products or are the lists arbitrarily put together with little to no guidelines. If those guidelines can't be pointed to, much like a forum faq or posting guidelines how do I know what I'm voting on?

Later,

Greg Volz

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm not trying to persuade you to participate. They're explicity not designed to be influenced by the industry (by which I mean the publishers and, by extension, you). The moment they change to meet publishers' needs (or wants) is the moment they become useless.

 

[naturaltwenty]

So it's a floating guideline or set of rules as to what constitutes a product? That's the wackiest set of criteria that a voting procedure can have. I mean even the Elks club or the Optimist club have a defined set of rules for voting. As another example to be considered a viable candidate for the President of the US you have to be:

1. A natural born citizen.
2. Over 35 years old.

Now that's a limited set but I'd love to see the ENnies product criteria, or is that too much transparency?

Later,

Greg Volz

The whole beauty of the ENnies is that they ARE transparent. Most things like this, you'd just get a canned coorporate response. Here, we do it publically. You know what people are thinking, planning, etc. And you know when we disagree, too.

All redundant anyway, because Denise and I aren't making the policy, we're merely organising things. The judges will make the policy once elected as they have every year. I'm sure potential judges are reading this, and maybe some of them will agree and build a platform based on that. Cool, innit?

 

[HellHound]

I'm not a publisher...sure I dabble but I've got no products for sale. What are the criteria for judging products or are the lists arbitrarily put together with little to no guidelines. If those guidelines can't be pointed to, much like a forum faq or posting guidelines how do I know what I'm voting on?

Later,

Greg Volz

In past years, based on my understanding, the judges and the ENnies committee worked together to build these categories. Once the categories are set (based in part on what products are submitted that year - for example you won't find a "monster / adversary book" category in a year when only one such book was submitted), they are typically posted along with the nominations for the public to see before voting on the nominees.

 

[naturaltwenty]

So a product can't run unopposed? How would that product be judged against anything other than it's own category? I guess it's that whole round peg, square whole paradox.

Maybe it's my whole IT and database background, unlike data types don't mix.

I tried to find the category and nominations for last year at the website but couldn't find them. Anyone got a link? (found it - http://www.ennieawards.com/2006.html but it just lists the categories - not the judging criteria)

Thanks,

Greg Volz

In past years, based on my understanding, the judges and the ENnies committee worked together to build these categories. Once the categories are set (based in part on what products are submitted that year - for example you won't find a "monster / adversary book" category in a year when only one such book was submitted), they are typically posted along with the nominations for the public to see before voting on the nominees.

 

[HellHound]

So a product can't run unopposed? How would that product be judged against anything other than it's own category? I guess it's that whole round peg, square whole paradox.

That's right. It would have to go into another category that it fits into. For example, if there was only one monster book submitted it would get probably rolled into the best supplement category. It remains a supplement, so it fits nicely in that category.

I tried to find the category and nominations for last year at the website but couldn't find them. Anyone got a link? (found it - http://www.ennieawards.com/2006.html but it just lists the categories - not the judging criteria)

Go a little deeper.
http://www.ennieawards.com/2006-1.html

Best Fan Site
Awarded for a web site run by fans, for fans, ie. not by a publisher.

Fans' Choice: Best Publisher
Awarded to a publisher whose body of work during the eligibility period was deemed best overall, with other, often less tangible factors taken into consideration. Customer support, quality and frequency of updates of their web site, their accessibility and contributions to the EN World and gaming-in-general communities will be all part of the qualities of Best Publisher. This is a Fans' Choice Award and the only category in which a publisher who did not submit any product for consideration to the ENnies can qualify (if they receive the nomination).

Best Cartography
Awarded for the individual product containing the best cartography (art or technique of making maps or charts).

Best Production Values
Awarded for the book exemplifying the best production values, from graphicdesign and layout, editing, paper, binding- all the factors that combine to create the look and feel of the product.

Best Supplement
Awarded for a product which adds supplementary rules or details to the game.

Best Game
Awarded for the best role-playing game. The Best Game winner brings together art, writing, rules, feeling, playability- everything that makes up a role playing game. Entries in this category must be complete enough to play as-is, from character creation to rules of play.

And so on.

 

[GwydapLlew]

I've said it elsewhere, but in my gaming experience, the "Shackled City" incident should really be a non-issue. If the hardcover had merely been a reprint of the adventures published in Dungeon, I could see the issue. However, as the hardcover had so much additional setting information that it made me decide to establish that locale as the home base for all of my d20 campaigns, I really see it as functioning as both a setting and an adventure.

I actually like that the ENnies re-establish their categories and guidelines each year. I know that it means that there will be less of an issue of people manipulating the system, as the system is torn down and replaced annually.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I have had one fan foaming at the mouth at Treebore over being required to come to a d20 fan site to vote for what is supposedly an industry-wide award, that I have to be concerned about it as well.

That just strikes me as odd. It's not like they have to actually physically go somewhere, for God's sake. Come in, vote, leave. It won't damage their computer. Reminds me of the story around the millennium when someone was scammed out of thousands of dollars buying pills so she, herself, wouldn't physically catch the Y2K virus.

But this being the internet, the least little thing gets blown totally out of proportion. Please prove me wrong and ignore this post.