Ice Archon

[mhensley]

I'm guessing that elemental resistance, and damage, will be much lower in 4E, such that Res 30 constitutes near immunity anyway.

This is most likely the case. Note that the Ice Archon only deals out 5 Cold damage.

 

[Steely Dan]

This is most likely the case. Note that the Ice Archon only deals out 5 Cold damage.

Yeah, and the new Pit Fiend isn't exactly dishing out that much damage for his level.


I think they want combats to have more rounds, so it looks like they are cutting back on damage a bit.

 

[FadedC]

I'm reminded of one of the original AD&D modules.....I think it was in the slave lord series, that featured a badly burned fire drake who thought his immunity to fire would protect him from swimming in a pool of lava only to find out he wasn't quite "immune enough". It's funny to think about now because the encounter really served absolutely no purpose at all in the adventure other then to illustrate the author's opinion that sufficiently hot fire could still hurt fire creatures.

My preference is that the classic elementals be immune to their own subtype, but it won't bother me all that much if they are only HIGHLY resistant. 25 cold resistance may turn out to be practical immunity given the damage numbers we have seen flying around. Even in 3e it would be enough to strongly discourage players from using anything but the most powerful empowered cold spells on them.

 

[HeinorNY]

Can you imagine a creature made out of living water drowning?

No, because they don't need to breath. Water doesn't kill people, what kills is the lack of air.

Why does cold hurt people?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Can you imagine a creature made out of living water drowning?

I can't. It seems silly to me.

Can you see a powerful current hurting or killing a creature made of water?

The presence of an element alone is never a problem. The problem is its interaction with your (or any creatures) body. There is something holding it together, keeping it one creature, not thousands or none. If you use force - and any type of element/stuff can apply force - you can affect what is bonding the creature together.

And to reiterate:

On a physical/scientific level, all temperature is movement (usually on a very small scale, like from molecules and atoms).
A Fire Elemental/Archon has a finite temperature, which means there is a higher temperature. To be able to move in the way a Elemental does (he doesn't need a "fuel line" to move), something must keep him together. If something manages to "add" heat to the elementals temperature it is possible that this bonding force is overwhelmed, ripping the Elemental apart. The rips may be filled with other fire, but this fire is not part of the Elemental, and it works as well as cutting a human in pieces and trying to "repair" him by putting flesh in the resulting holes (which means it can work, but not on a "big" scale.

A Ice Elemental/Archon has a low temperature. But if he was at 0 K, he couldn't move (especially not in the way he probably does. Quantum Effects might still allow a little bit of movement, since he can't stay at 0 K anyway.). There is force at work that keeps him cold, but also not too cold. If you can get him cold enough, the force that stabilizes his temperature can fail. It's as if you would cut off the blood supply of living cells. If done shortly enough, it can be repaired, but if it's to long, the cells die. If enough cells die, the Ice Archon dies...

 

[Derren]

Can you see a powerful current hurting or killing a creature made of water?

The presence of an element alone is never a problem. The problem is its interaction with your (or any creatures) body. There is something holding it together, keeping it one creature, not thousands or none. If you use force - and any type of element/stuff can apply force - you can affect what is bonding the creature together.

But then the force is what is causing the damage, not the element.

Being stabbed with a dagger is piercing damage, not iron damage. That means that, for example, cold damage is just damage through exposure to cold.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

But then the force is what is causing the damage, not the element.

Being stabbed with a dagger is piercing damage, not iron damage. That means that, for example, cold damage is just damage through exposure to cold.

That might be also part of the damage of energy attacks - the Breath of a Dragon isn't just heating or cooling the air. But even if it would do just that, there is still some kind of energy transfer, and that's also what happens when a dagger strikes a human body...

But read the second part of my post and comment on that.

 

[evillives]

Checking the Math

Using JohnSnow's solution for the Pit Fiend stats yields some interesting nuggets to ponder until the D&D Experience:

Fort = 10 (base + 13 (con mod +1/2 level) yields 23, or 10 short
Ref = 10 (base) + 16 (dex mod + 1/2 level) yields 26 or 5 short
Will = 10 (base) + 13 (wis mod + 1/2 level) yields 23 or 6 short

Nugget #1: Do elementals get their Con mod as a bonus to their three prime defenses because they are, you know, made out of the elements and stuff? If so, the new tally is:

Fort= 6 short
Ref= 1 short
Will= 2 short

Wild Guess: The Ice Archon's class bonuses to defenses are +1 Fort, +1 Ref and +2 Will,
leaving an unexplained +5 for Fort.

Nugget #2: Do elementals get a +5 bonus to their Fort defense because they are made out of elements and therefore hard to poison, transform, strangle, etc?

Query: If Nugget #2 (and the math and guesses leading up to it) is correct, will that also be the case for undead and other critter types that were once immune to poison, death effects and assorted nastinesses?

Three weeks....

 

[The_Fan]

After a good night's sleep, I have a better conceptualizing of an Ice Archon being damaged by cold. The problem was I was visualizing it being uninjured and then suddenly being killed by a cold attack, but any cold attack is likely to do so little damage it'd just be chipping pixels on it (unless the "full damage if > resistance" rumor is true).

The ice archon is facing a cold-focused mage. The mage's allies are down, and the ice archon is injured but still standing, bleeding its icy...fluid from several large wounds, including one very large one in the chest. The ice archon gives a speech about how the frost mage's powers are useless against a creature as cold as him.

The mage fires off a polar ray at the archon, striking him square in the chest. Ice crystals form in and around the oozing wound. The archon has a look of terror as the ice erupts from his chest, messily splitting him in half like a boulder in winter.

"It's not how cold the ice is, but where it forms."

 

[Wolfspider]

The ice archon is facing a cold-focused mage. The mage's allies are down, and the ice archon is injured but still standing, bleeding its icy...fluid from several large wounds, including one very large one in the chest. The ice archon gives a speech about how the frost mage's powers are useless against a creature as cold as him.

The mage fires off a polar ray at the archon, striking him square in the chest. Ice crystals form in and around the oozing wound. The archon has a look of terror as the ice erupts from his chest, messily splitting him in half like a boulder in winter.

"It's not how cold the ice is, but where it forms."

In your example, it's not the cold that kills the archon, but the physical force of the ice forming in the wound and tearing the creature apart, like water in a crack expanding when frozen to split the rock. Wouldn't that be a physical attack, though, and not an energy one?

In your (well written and imaginative) example, the ice archon proves vulnerable not to cold, but to being torn apart by massive physical trauma.