I'd like some Opinions please

[Hatchling Dragon]

Situation: PC is occupied and basically I'm left with nothing to do. My 'distraction' for myself, so that I don't kibitz and what-not, is to poke around in my books reading-up on whatever catches my fancy. This does include stuff about the currently unfolding story/adventure. [note: We found out we were fighting Ghostwise Halflings, the bad kind, I read-up on Malar and Ghostwise Halfings.] I made a point of only chiming in (publicly) when rules were missed or missinterpreted (most of us are new to 3e), and chatted a bit with other players as thier characters hit 'dead time'.

Now my DM's telling me that I'm not to bring any book but the PHB, perhaps with access to others as well for spells/feats/ect.. This is because he thinks that me knowing something the characters don't would affect my desicions in-game. On the other hand he's said flat-out that he doesn't care what books I buy/read outside the game, just what I bring with and/or look at at the table.

I can sorta understand his point, but I will not be dictated to unless someone can give me a better reason or an example of me 'breaking character' becuase of my readings. I'd probably be far more sympathetic about his views if it weren't for the fact that my 'illegal readings' were nothing more than clearing up a couple of semi-vauge points I'd already known from prior reading (I DM in FR too.)

Who, if either, of us is being unreasonable? I'm quite seriously considering dropping from the game, which I'd truely hate as it's my only DnD playing opportunity. I just hate restrictions. He's also made some noises about restricting access to spells, which was something I'd asked about before and was told "If it's published it's good.", but that's a rant for another topic.

Thanks in advance twice, once for reading that long-winded rant, and secondly for your opions on the matter.

Hatchling Dragon

 

[Tsyr]

*shrug* I don't allow players to read the MM at the table. Whatever they want to do in their own time is fine by me, but not at the table. Among other things, it slows things down and is distracting. It's also irritating to have a player cry out "But Left-Handed Wombats don't get a Kazoo Attack, only Right-Handed Wombats do!"-type comments.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Is that all?

Not to sound offensive, but this doesn't sound so bad. So he doesn't want you or anyone else second-guessing his rulings. It is his campaign. If there are unclarities (is that a word?!), it's his interpretation that matters.

I understand you don't want to be dictated to, but he could see your "help" as potentially hurtful if your interpretation doesn't fit with his, and you've given it more thought and yours make sense and the rest of the players all like yours, then his seems too limiting, and he's lost control of his world.

*shurg* I think it's a small limitation only, one that *any* DM would not be out of his league in restricticing. It's not like he's forbidding you to read the books altogether, you just can't use your encyclopedic knowledge, in character or out.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I'd say over all your're in the right, you were just trying to be helpful, after all. I could see if that was a general rule to keep players focused on the game, but as a retaliation, it's just wrong.

The spell limits are reasonable, given some flexablity to pc created spells, but as a DM i think it's better to be a little causious in this regaurd, in order to preserve balance and flavor in the campaign.

I'd say stick with the game and talk to this guy about where he's coming from and the possiblity of changes, it's your game too.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Sorry Hatchling Dragon I do have to side with the DM on this one. In my own game players are allowed the PHB in front of them and that's it (now I did make this clear from the start so it is a little unfair of your Dm to switch gears suddenly).

My players can consult other books for specific rules/feats/spells but I always have the last word on what is or isn't allowed (I would never tell a player that any published source if allowable and if I did I certainly wouldn't then retract that statement).

Hmmmm maybe I'm more on your side than i thought. I cetainly have the same restrictions on book access as your DM but he seems to say one thing and do another.

One thing I would recommend is that you talk to the DM about this rather than dropping out without a word. Maybe a compromise can be reached? It really doesn't seem so large an issue as to drop out of the game.

One last thing - in your own game what books are players allowed to look at? Maybe you are just irked because your DMing style doesn't mesh with his? Just my 2cp.

 

[Hatchling Dragon]

Ok, a few things weren't quite so clear after-all. The 'rules lawyering' is acutally encouraged for the 'basics'. Stuff like being sure monsters are flat-footed if the situation is warrented, or how to Bull Rush, that sorta thing. I'm apparently the most 'lawyerish' of the group and thus at least semi-officially a 'rules official'. There's been talk about me over-riding/interrupting him, but we talked that out and I'm following his requests (ask first, ect)

His issue with my reading, which again I was doing when I had nothing else to do at the time, was with me learning background info: That Malar's an evil God, the history of Ghostwise Halflings, stuff my character shouldn't know. Reading rules, or 'crunchy bits', is just fine and encouraged.

I acutally don't bring my MM or DMG to sessions, just to avoid peeking at the HD of stuff. And I don't think I've ever let my knowledge (from DM-based reading, yah that's the reason! ) affect my character's reaction. Example: Previous session we ended up fighting a Naga, probably Water, in a module he was running from a Dungeon or perhaps an on-line source. I was reacting totally as if my character was completely ignorant of the beast's capeabilities. After the session I did open my MM (it was with me) and peeked, then commented to another player "Good lord, I'm a bit shocked we got away, let alone lived!" He just grinned when he overheard us and said "Nobody got a good look at it, you still don't know what it is."

I'm starting to wonder if he's getting more 'n more restrictive with me (that last naga module was run cuz all the water was deeper than I am tall, as he likes to point out ) becuase he's mad that I have more knowledge of the system than he does. I'll happily confess he's about 5000% better at DM'ing than I can hope to be, and I hope it's just my ego getting outta hand. We'll have to see if the restrictions keep piling up or not.

I'd never drop out without notice. If something similar happened again I'd probably just go home. I literally had nothing to do, and that's quite boring.

Hatchling Dragon

 

[Hatchling Dragon]

One last thing - in your own game what books are players allowed to look at? Maybe you are just irked because your DMing style doesn't mesh with his? Just my 2cp.

Heh, I'll let you know what I decide if and when I can get my players to read any of the rules!

Heck, only one person's made up thier own character, and that was with a fair bit of help from me. At least she did it.

Most of the 'nifty ideas' that the characters have are mine. Situations that start with: Me: "I just read about this thing and it sounds like something that'd be neat if your character had/did/whatever." PC: "Oh, kewl! So, could I do that?"

But again, something that belongs in it's own thread/rant. I'll prolly let 'm read anything they want, as long as the game's not disrupted.

Hatchling Dragon

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

It osunds like there are some issues there, maybe you should just play for a while and not offer any rules help, just enjoy the game and let the others do that. If he keeps piling restrictions on you, then talk to him on the side.

 

[LostSoul]

I can understand the DM's position.

Are you sure this is the only issue between the two of you?

 

[The It's Man]

When a character in our group isn't where the action is or is below 0 hitpoints, they usually leave the room if it's going to take a long time or if the DM or player thinks the PC isn't supposed to know what exactly happened at that time.

I can understand the DM is annoyed, if your character is tied up (literally) or something like that while you're doing something else - whether it is reading the MM or the newspaper or humming the last NSync hit.

It can be distracting (to himself or the other players) or he can percieve it as a signal of non-interest in what the campaign is about - even when you're capable of humming and paying attention at the same time.