D&D 5E Idea for removing the ability score cap...

[vecna00]

I'm not a huge fan of the stat cap in D&D Next. I had thought it was just something they were doing for the playtest, and was a bit disappointed that it stuck around for the final version of the game. Now, I understand why it was done and I'm cool with that, but I want to remove that cap. However, I was thinking about the old Epic Level Handbook from 3rd Edition, and how it mentions when PCs reach 21st level, it's almost as if the campaign world itself changes as well. Sometimes an Epic event needs to occur in order to reach 21st level (new threats become unleashed, old ones long-since forgotten about re-emerge, etc), and I wanted to do something similar, just on a smaller scale. A PC can raise their scores over 20, but once they do, something happens. I'm not exactly sure on the "what" as of yet, other than the obvious main NPCs and big baddies have their stats being raised as well.

Since it seems the base campaign setting is Forgotten Realms, maybe something got added to the Tablets of Fate that kept the mortals' power in check, kind of like the Worldstone from Diablo. Or maybe Ao himself just decided to tune down the power so nothing can attempt to dethrone the deities. The PCs, being unique individuals, have the power to break that cap, but in doing so opens up a Pandora's Box and causes the ochre jelly to hit the fan. Maybe, depending on how Tyranny of Dragons is set up, that could be worked in to allow Tiamat to get a foothold on the Prime Material Plane.

In any event, these are just a few ideas I've had kicking around in my head the last few days and I was looking to get some feedback and maybe a few more ideas from anyone who wishes to contribute to this!

 

[Branduil]

I wanted to do something similar, just on a smaller scale. A PC can raise their scores over 20, but once they do, something happens. I'm not exactly sure on the "what" as of yet

Well that's easy, what happens is that the game breaks

 

[vecna00]

It only breaks if one lets it break

 

[jodyjohnson]

Just start the treadmill like the last two uncapped editions.

In 4e I always wanted to do a cap of 19 until paragon, and then the paragon boost would allow up to 25 stats. (it ends up being only a -3 adjustment.)

 

[ProphetSword]

Raising the attribute cap will break the game. You should feel free to do whatever you want, but just know that you've been warned. The caps are in place for a reason.

 

[Sadrik]

I think it is fine. In my 5e house rules I remove it. I instead insist that the ability improvements be +1/+1 only though.

In this way the fighter who gets the most pumps with 7. So if you started with a 17 (15 +2 from race). you could take it to 24 tops. That is high level... and hopefully there will be lots of incentives for classes to do other things in the full game in lieu of the stat pumps. I think this would be fine. The casters would only be able to take it to 21 I think... which is fine.

 

[vecna00]

I'll throw this out there: It won't break the game as long as you balance everything else as well. If the PCs get to have higher scores, so does everything else. In addition, raise DCs and Armor Classes. I mostly want to allow for more growth, and make the decision to either raise abilities or pick up feats just a tad bit more interesting. Though, I do like a few of the ideas of either limiting it by tier or keeping increases to +1/+1. Those I'll definitely keep in mind.

I've received feedback on the mechanics, but what about the story? Any thoughts there?

 

[Prism]

We have a 23rd level campaign which we will probably convert to 5e at some point (its been rolemaster, 2e, 3e and 4e over the years). I imagine we will cap the levels back at 20 so as not to have to deal with increased proficiency bonus's, spell casting etc but we will probably allow certain stats for certain characters to break the cap. One pc is a chosen, another a deputy of Asmodeus by this point. Both of them are immortal and both seem suitable for higher stats. We will be making it up as we go along but some form of combination of 3e and 4e epic rules might work out

Having said that we rarely fight anymore and often don't use the dice. Its mostly politics nowadays

 

[Umbran]

I'll throw this out there: It won't break the game as long as you balance everything else as well.

The problem at hand is the bounded accuracy. The stat bonus is a major contributor to a die roll, and allowing it to rise very high means that the PCs will be able to reach notably higher DCs, and lower DCs will become more trivial. "as long as you balance everything else as well" is simply stated, but now a non-trivial amount of work. You're now talking about changing *every die roll* the PCs make. This is now not a small balancing action, but a very large one.

So, I ask - why? In terms of design and balance, "I don't like the cap" is a pretty weak (or at least weakly stated) reason to change it. The cap is a thing with a mechanical function. You should not alter the cap for the sake of altering the cap, but instead to change the mechanical function.

So, what's wrong with the mechanics as they are, with the cap? What about how the game plays do you not like?

Moreover, have you actually played enough of the game, as it is now written, to be sure it plays in a way you don't like? I mean, you haven't even seen the PHB and feats yet, and you're talking about removing the cap. Is that really wise?

 

[billd91]

The problem at hand is the bounded accuracy. The stat bonus is a major contributor to a die roll, and allowing it to rise very high means that the PCs will be able to reach notably higher DCs, and lower DCs will become more trivial. "as long as you balance everything else as well" is simply stated, but now a non-trivial amount of work. You're now talking about changing *every die roll* the PCs make. This is now not a small balancing action, but a very large one.

I think, to intensify this issue, you should ask yourself which stats players will invest in once the cap is removed or relaxed. It won't be their least needed stats - it will be their class's primary stats and that will probably drive the gap between offensive stats and defensive stats wider, a gap that people are already wary of around these boards. This will be particularly acutely felt by your players if you raise enemy NPC stats above the caps as well. How will your players enjoy trying to make a save vs spells when the NPC caster's casting stat is above cap but their defensive saving stat is below cap (and possibly well below it at that)? I would seriously think of discussing this issue with your players before introducing it as a house rule.