ideas for building a dragon killing druid (needed for backstory)

[Brother MacLaren]

3. Call lightning (storm) has only medium range. One move from the dragon and he is out of range.
4. The summons only last one minute. Not enough time to precast them and then approach the dragon. You have to cast them near the dragon (arrowhawks are slow) which makes you a target for the dragon.

Call Lightning Storm is long range (400'+40'/level, or 800'). If you get two bolts to hit (or one with a failed save), you have already done more damage than the dragon will heal that day. And if the dragon hasn't actually seen where the caster is (cover, concealment, distance, Hide, decoys, diversions, magic), he might flee in the wrong direction. Doesn't have to be actually stormy to get the 5d10 remember, clouds and wind are sufficient. From what I remember, a druid in a climate like Ireland or Scotland is going to be calling the big bolts almost every day. Summons last ten rounds, true; flying at a run it's possible to cover a lot of ground quickly.

The best bet is probably baleful polymorph, and that 9% chance of beating the SR and the save is *easily* acceptable as a plausibly backstory for how a 10th-level druid beat an adult black dragon single-handedly, especially because the druid could probably survive long enough to attempt it multiple times. Inflicting damage over time with hit-and-run tactics isn't bad either as long as you can pull it off consistently. As to the dragon spotting the druid, I would think that wildshaping into a small viper (or other animal with racial Hide bonus) and using Reduce Animal on self to become Tiny would be wise.

If you were considering non-core material, there's a spell from Draconomicon that either kills a dragon's flight ability (on a failed save) or reduces flying speed by 10' per caster level (on a successful save). It's not that high-level either. Such a spell would provide a major advantage to the druid, and this dragon can't cast dispel magic.

 

[Vysirez]

Interesting, but there are some problems with your first plan.

1. The dragon is only large (Not really a problem).
2. Tree stride can be only used once.
3. Call lightning (storm) has only medium range. One move from the dragon and he is out of range.
4. The summons only last one minute. Not enough time to precast them and then approach the dragon. You have to cast them near the dragon (arrowhawks are slow) which makes you a target for the dragon.
5. You must concentrate to call a lightning bolt which is noticeable with a spellcraft check only with a higher DC.
6. On stormy days it might be a bit hard to catch the dragon outside of his lair.

The arrowhawks may have perfect fly ability, but thats only usefull in close combat. The dragon would just double move away from them, turn and then charge. Except for an readied action the arrowhawks have no chance of hitting the dragon and the dragon can cover the distance between the save zone and the arrowhawks in one move, meaning at lwast one arrowhawk is going to die. And if the dragon ends its turn threatening an other arrowhawk the only thing it can do is attacking with its bite. Everything else gives an AoO.

Tree stride only works once, but once you enter a tree you can hop from on
e tree to another up to 10 times before exiting. The distance between the trees determine how far you go however even the worst distance after 10 hops is like 5000 feet. Plus the dragon has no way of knowing which way you went.

Even 100' away behind obstructions makes it somewhat unlikely that the dragon is going to notice a few summon spells. Arrowhawks arent what I would call slow, 60' perfect flight is pretty darn fast. It's not 150' true, but the arrowhawks are not going to stay in a small cluster so the dragon can attack them all at one time. I figure it's fairly likely that the dragon is only going to be able to get one arrowhawk per pass. The range on an arrowhawk ray is 50 feet. I don't think a dragon has that much reach. So the dragon is likely to have 5-7 rounds of 4+ arrowhawks hitting him for 2d6 per.

Call lightning has a range of 200' at 10th lvl. So yes a dragon can fly out of your range within a round or so. However that gains him nother. As said above you have just hurt him and he did nothing to you. So unless he decided to leave the area he either will die slowly day by day, or stick around to fight, which fit my tactics in my first post.

I am a bit curious how he is going to notice the call lightning. I really dont think that the amount of concentration needed to summon a lightning bolt is going to be glaringly obvious considering you look like some small animal.

 

[Sejs]

You know, I wonder. If you still are within range of the spell, and still have line of effect to the target from your location, do you have to use your own point of view to keep tabs on who/where you want the effect to manifest?

It wouldn't work with a druid, mind you, but with a Spirit Shaman using their ability to have their spirit guide surrogate-concentrate for them to maintain a spell and using Share Husk, that could be kind of interesting.

 

[Derren]

Even 100' away behind obstructions makes it somewhat unlikely that the dragon is going to notice a few summon spells.

The dragon will notice you at this distance. 100 ft distance means -5 to the spot check. A small creature has +4 to hide and the cover may give another 4 to hide. Thats a DC 13 to see the druid which is easily made by the dragon with a spot of +24.
The the dragon only needs a spellcraft chheck to notice that you are casting spells which check is a bit harder to make for the dragon.

So the dragon is likely to have 5-7 rounds of 4+ arrowhawks hitting him for 2d6 per.

Or the dragon just dodges until the spell runs out. After the first day he knows that this are summons

Call lightning has a range of 200' at 10th lvl. So yes a dragon can fly out of your range within a round or so. However that gains him nother. As said above you have just hurt him and he did nothing to you. So unless he decided to leave the area he either will die slowly day by day, or stick around to fight, which fit my tactics in my first post.

Or ambush you. Never tought about that idea? Without a good disguise check the dragon is likely to notice the wildshaped druid when alert. Also you don't find the weather conditions four enhancing lightning bolts every day.
PS: You need a stormy condition to enhance the bolts, not just clouds.

I am a bit curious how he is going to notice the call lightning. I really dont think that the amount of concentration needed to summon a lightning bolt is going to be glaringly obvious considering you look like some small animal.

You are concentrating on a spell, that is imo noticeable with a spellcraft check to notice a spell already in place

 

[Darklone]

Just to restate my position: I do think a druid can beat that dragon in melee with some summoned monsters and the respective buffs.

But I think it will be difficult to get close to the dragon, perhaps even find him (swimming under water) and as soon as the battle starts, keep him from fleeing.

If the druid can achieve all this, e.g. by grappling and approaching the dragon with "presents"... then I can see him as a winner.

 

[Derren]

So to summarize: It is possible but depends a lot on luck, meeting special requirements and special tactics.

Because this is only for the backstory luck etc. shouldn't be a problem if the DM is nice. Basically going to the dragon and casting baleful polymorph would also work when the DM allows it.

But don't expect that you can do this again in the real game.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

The dragon will notice you at this distance. 100 ft distance means -5 to the spot check. A small creature has +4 to hide and the cover may give another 4 to hide.

Tiny form (using Reduce Animal on self) is base +8. Snake is another +4. Base dex for a small viper is +3, with the size change it's +4. So that's +16 Hide, or +20 with Cover. Basically even odds against a net +19 Spot check, assuming the druid has no ranks in Hide.

Keep in mind, we've been comparing a nominally CR 11 dragon (a very tough CR 11) against a 10th-level druid. If you use an 11th-level druid, he can take Tiny forms without using Reduce Animal, some of which have better racial Hide bonuses than our viper form. He'll also have access to Antilife Shell (combined with Resist Energy for acid resistance 30, he's basically dragon-immune), Fire Seeds (11d6, no SR, and no save if hit w/ranged touch), or summoning Huge elementals (whose whirlwinds/vortices could entrap even this dragon; Augment Summoning enhances their Con and hence their DCs). The 11th-level caster can also summon 1-3 giant constrictor snakes or 2-5 giant crocodiles at a time, then enlarge them all as soon as they appear to grapple the dragon (they'll go on the druid's initiative, but the druid will likely have a higher Dex in wildshaped form and so his animal growth spell will take effect before they attack).

PS: You need a stormy condition to enhance the bolts, not just clouds.

Check the spell description. It defines stormy conditions as "a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado (including a whirlwind formed by a djinni or an air elemental of at least Large size)" - and the druid can get this whirlwind whenever he needs it via SNA V. Clouds and wind is a very common condition in some regions and seasons.

 

[Derren]

Too bad that we are talkning about a 10th level druid, no?

And antilife shell makes someone dragon proof? Not really. Sure the dragon can attack you with its natural weapons, but just watch the dragon playing golf with the druid using a large tree it ripped out of the earth.

 

[Sir Ragnar]

Wall of Thorns

What about Wall of Thorns. If you're talking about a Young Adult Black dragon (CR 9) it has a strength of 19 so the best it can do on a strength check is a 24. That makes it impossible for the dragon to escape (you need a 25 to move anywhere). The spell lasts for 100 minutes if cast by a 10th level druid. Then start casting call lightning, flame strike, summon arrowhawks, whatever.

Wouldn't that work?

Sir Ragnar

 

[Storyteller01]

Going back to the 12 Int thing...

I may not have a 12 Intelligence, but...

If I've been hit by something that hurt me (alot!!) I'm going to remeber it. If I didn't find the immediate cause, then I'm going to take precautions to make sure it doesn't happen again. I may not be able to cast 2nd level spells but I do have home turf advantage (even against the druid). Also, critters that live in the area may be of help. Lizard folk may prefer druids as a class, but if one shows up threatening one of the few things that's keeping the humans out...

It's not impossible for an Adult Dragon of any type to have a 'ring of resistance : electricity' (Odds are, if the dragon has lived to adult age it does have something similar)

Near as I can tell, this is a one-shot senario. If the dragon does not die on first contact, it will be prepared for others (use frightful presence to clear the immeditae land of creatures, and keep an ear out for anything that moves).

Doesn't a Dragon have Clairaudience/Clairvoyance for a number of miles equal to its age catagory? Just wondering, because I'd be using that to scan for the guy who zapped me?