If I were a Big Game Company...

[D+1]

Ok, firstly you watch your [] tone in my thread.

I'll pitch my tone where I think it appropriate thank YOU very much.

Secondly, I don't expect you to "buy" because I'm not selling - I don't stand to gain anything by sharing this so keep your righteous indignation under your hat.

Firstly, for not being a salesman for the notion you seem to be awfully defensive about it being attacked. Secondly - YOU brought it up.

Framing their advertising and build-up to look like a competition is a marketing master-stroke.

You say that like you've actually proven it to be the case. Perhaps if you... presented evidence? Something to support the idea?

The fact is that the winning entry was ALWAYS going to be what most closely resembled WotC's vision for 'the New 3rd edition campaign setting' anyway, and it just happened to be Eberron

Which doesn't mean that they created it first and then fabricated a coverup "contest" thinking that it would help it to sell.

Ooh yes, please condescend to me, D+1, and spank me a little harder while you're at it...

Actually, that was not intended as condescension but an inquiry into what it is you REALLY think.

Well, smarty-pants, let me tell you I'm a diehard homebrewer and I've sunk literally thousands of hours into my own homebrew over the past decade, yet the more I read about Eberron the more I think I might have found the first off-the-shelf setting I want to run. And I own the much-vaunted Midnight (FFG) setting, which is too dark (among other things) for my tastes.

So it MUST be a conspiracy! It couldn't possibly have happened unless it was foisted upon you unsuspectingly with a tissue of lies about an ACTUAL contest.

But this thread is all about WotC's ruse. There was never any 'competition' other than Design-a-Setting-That-Most-Closely-Matches-the-Criteria-Our-Market-Research-Division-Told-Us-Would-Improve-Total-Company-Sales.

Um... It's hardly a ruse since you provide an actual quote of what it was they were up to. Your post suggests not that they had <gasp> parameters for designating a winner for the contest, but that the entire contest itself was faked in order to foist upon the public not a winning entry that fit their parameters for winning, but a setting completely invented by WotC before the contest ever began and then passed off as someone elses work, all because this was the best way to boost sales of that setting.

They weren't looking for anything new and fresh; they were looking for a sales vehicle that was Vanilla D&D and that would make 100% of every supplement already on the shelves useable (particularly the 3.5 PsiHB).

You say "Vanilla D&D" as if it's a Bad Thing. And the fact that they wanted the winner to be compatible with core rules does NOT mean that the setting CANNOT be new and fresh. Your own confessed interest in it would suggest that it IS just that despite your protestations to the contrary.

I mean, really!!! Remind me whose setting it is again?

It's WotC's because they BOUGHT it. IIRC the prize was not "We'll print your setting just as you envision it" but "We want you to ultimately write a large document for your world which we'll buy with the prize money we give you - along with giving you a high-paying job as a CONSULTANT who will still have some input as to what we then do with it after you turn in your final contest requirement of 100+ pages for US to use as a basis."

This was not a secret. This was a very high profile contest with large cash rewards and was a clearly stated means to an end - a new setting for WotC to make money off of. A new setting was something that in MY opinion was overdue by at LEAST 5 years - a need predating the arrival of 3E. So what REALLY is your problem with all this? Who lied? Who got cheated? Where's the beef?

 

[Snoweel]

I'll pitch my tone where I think it appropriate thank YOU very much.

No. You'll do as you're told.

Firstly, for not being a salesman for the notion you seem to be awfully defensive about it being attacked.

No, I'm defensive about me being attacked.

Secondly - YOU brought it up.

Which somehow gives you carte blanche to come into my thread behaving uncivilly?

I think not.

You say that like you've actually proven it to be the case.

Dude, your reading comprehension (and that of others) isn't my responsibility. I've been chastised for transgressions in this thread (by a moderator who is a member of MENSA, no less), yet making false and libelous claims wasn't among them.

It is clear to most that I never claimed to have proof to support my theory.

Actually, that was not intended as condescension but an inquiry into what it is you REALLY think.

"Do you not understand or accept the idea..." reads more like condescension to me than a genuine query. Especially when your "question" goes on to clearly state your point.

You have heard of a rhetorical question, right? <-- NB, condescension, not a genuine question.

Or maybe it's just a fault of my reading comprehension.

So it MUST be a conspiracy! It couldn't possibly have happened unless it was foisted upon you unsuspectingly with a tissue of lies about an ACTUAL contest.

Look, more condescension...

You say "Vanilla D&D" as if it's a Bad Thing.

Did I?

Comprehension, Leo...

This was not a secret. This was a very high profile contest with large cash rewards and was a clearly stated means to an end - a new setting for WotC to make money off of. A new setting was something that in MY opinion was overdue by at LEAST 5 years - a need predating the arrival of 3E. So what REALLY is your problem with all this? Who lied? Who got cheated? Where's the beef?

My point is that WotC would've ended up with Eberron (or a clone thereof) whether they ran a competition or not.

The main result of the competition (and imo, the entire point of the competition) was to increase consumer interest in the setting and thus sales.

From what I've seen of Eberron, it looks like so many of the better homebrews I've seen on the net, only with superior artwork and cartography.

One minor point - The presence of Means, Motive, and Opportunity do not in and of themselves prove a thing was done. Your presentation lacks one very important element - hard evidence.

Lack of proof doesn't mean that something didn't happen, in the same way that there is no proof that the purpose of the competition was legit.

I never phrased my post as anything other than postulation, and for mine, a closed mind is a mind that is not open to possibilities.

By that thinking, every occurance can be looked at on the basis of likelihood, and in my experience, Means, Motive and Opportunity tend to indicate Certainty, especially when not constrained by any form of Sanction or Retribution.

It's called 'deduction' and can be difficult for science-types to grasp.

It is that lack that keeps this thing firmly in the realm of conspiracy theory.

'Conspiracy theory' is a cliche that means something quite different to what's happening here (though I phrased my initial post in typical pop-conspiracy theory style in an attempt to show that my Postulation was not as self-conscious as the term 'conspiracy theory' so emotively conveys).

Rather than get mad at the condescending folks, you ought to be happy they do that. It helps ensure you aren't taken seriously.

Who says I'm not being taken seriously? You should see my inbox. People love a 'conspiracy theory'.

If you were taken seriously, but you had no actual proof, the whole thing gets filed under "libel", which isn't good at all...

Actually mate, here in Australia, the term 'libel' is just another word associated with America, where there are more lawyers than in the rest of the world put together.

I'm about as scared of litigation as WotC would be of losing sales because of this thread.

 

[Yair]

Reading the first post, I thought it was a jest. I certainly hope my first impression is right.
WotC certainly had an affect on the setting's development, and whatever setting they would have published would be similar in some ways to Eberron. But to suggest that such criteria are so engulfing and that the writer's input was so little as to make them virtually determine the setting is not only insulting to the author's (and developer's) creative work, it is also improbable to the point of being certainly wrong.
WotC wanted some things from the setting, true. These things could have been achieved in a myriad of ways. The particualr way that is Eberron would not have come around without a lot of creative work.

I don't think I'll buy Eberron, as I don't believe I will like it. But claiming that WotC had so much impact is an insult to the author and the designers that produced this work, and I just wanted to step in and give my support to them.

 

[Hellcow]

Thanks for the clarification, and like I said, Eberron looks pretty cool.

Thanks, Snoweel. As I said, I understand that this is a thread *for* conspiracy theories, so I'm not taking it personally (after all, I can't prove my story is true).

But thanks, also, Yair!

 

[MDSnowman]

Thanks, Snoweel. As I said, I understand that this is a thread *for* conspiracy theories, so I'm not taking it personally (after all, I can't prove my story is true).

But thanks, also, Yair!

I'm looking forward to the book myself Keith. I think it's about time WotC released a new setting and everything I've seen tells me that it may be worth the wait.

I'm not sure when I'll get to actually DM an Eberron game though.... hell I've been preparing a Ravenloft game for the better part of three years.

Heh well anyway, keep up the great work!

 

[Umbran]

No. You'll do as you're told.

Oh, come on Snoweel. You've already been warned to tone it down. Folks may choose to do as you ask, but only after you have shown that you can do so yourself. Golden Rule, and all that.

 

[Umbran]

Lack of proof doesn't mean that something didn't happen, in the same way that there is no proof that the purpose of the competition was legit.

Okay, so you admit that you have no actual evidence? That your claim is only conjecture?

Yes, there is no proof that the competition was legit. However, around here we have a little concept that may be stated as "innocent until proven guilty". While this is not a court of law, the concept still holds.

I never phrased my post as anything other than postulation...

That's not entirely true. I look back and see you saying:

"But this thread is all about WotC's ruse."

That's not a postulation, but is an allegation.

...a closed mind is a mind that is not open to possibilities.

Ah. But as they say, the trick is to keep your mind open, but no so open that your brains spill out on the sidewalk.

It's called 'deduction' and can be difficult for science-types to grasp.

Sir, are you of the opinion that the Mensan Moderator who has already warned you about your behavior will read that as anything other than an insult? Keep it up, fellow, and you'll get your own thread closed.

Really, can you find no better way to defend your postulation than to suggest that your opponents lack the mental ability to understand it? Attack on the ability or integrity of your opponent does not actually suport your position, you know.

Who says I'm not being taken seriously? You should see my inbox. People love a 'conspiracy theory'.

People love Gilligan's Island, too. Doesn't mean they take it seriously

I'm about as scared of litigation as WotC would be of losing sales because of this thread.

Your lack of fear doesn't make it a good thing to do. Honestly, it makes you sound like a fairly common sort of internet hooligan, willing to say bad things about others behind a screen of anonymity and obscurity.

Now, I'd be far more interested if you were afraid. That might hint that you actually had some substance which the Big Sneaky Corporation might not want to be heard.

 

[Piratecat]

Having to come back here after already issuing a warning is disappointing. Thread closed.