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If you had to cut two core races from your game....
- Thread starter Emirikol
- Start date
I don't like:
Dwarves (mechanically). Flavor-wise, they're awesome, but their stat-block is a bitch. Too many bonuses to too many things. A lot of it could be ammended with racial feats and bigger bonuses (ie - the stonecunning stuff, the spell-resistance + poison stuff, etc etc).
Gnomes (Flavor+Mechanics). Gnomes have strayed far from their roots. I think making bard their favored class is a terrible idea as my idea of gnomes is typically one of a reclusive clannish trickster, closely followed by a reclusive tinkerer mechanic. They dont have the social guts to be singing (or writing?) songs and certainly don't get enough respect to actually perform for kings (let alone tavern crowds).
Halflings (Flavor). I know it all stemmed from Hobbits, but really its a race whose flavor is to be annoying and childish which usually turns out to be at very least annoying. Also, they are like half-humans, which is just weird. I like the concept of Faen from Arcana Evolved much more than Halflings and Gnomes (even though Faen have a little bit of silly flavor).
Half-Orcs (mechanically). While the dwarf gets too much, the half-orc gets too little. A net -2 to stats is harsh, with very little balancing it out. Also, half-orcs tend to be rather cookie cut from a few molds and kinda boring and 1-dimensional.
Half-Elves (mechanically). Someone suggested a Half-Elf feat years ago - basically you take that feat as your human feat to gain some elf bonuses. You also get elf-blood and can qualify for prestige classes. Imo, that works a lot more elegantly than presenting them as a seperate class with random charisma-based skill bonuses.
My all-time favorite races?
Humans - one of the most powerful races, but fitting for a dominant species focused on flexibility and adaptability.
Elves - strong but with a strong penalty to a key stat. They border on having too many abilities but dont cross the border. Very good flavor. I like the base elf, I don't dig all the variants.
Faen - excellently replace halflings and gnomes with a single race, and even hearken back to celtic myth better than those do these days (esp with Spryte transformation).
Dwarves (Flavor) - a great foil to the dandy elf is the gruff dwarf.
Dwarves (mechanically). Flavor-wise, they're awesome, but their stat-block is a bitch. Too many bonuses to too many things. A lot of it could be ammended with racial feats and bigger bonuses (ie - the stonecunning stuff, the spell-resistance + poison stuff, etc etc).
Gnomes (Flavor+Mechanics). Gnomes have strayed far from their roots. I think making bard their favored class is a terrible idea as my idea of gnomes is typically one of a reclusive clannish trickster, closely followed by a reclusive tinkerer mechanic. They dont have the social guts to be singing (or writing?) songs and certainly don't get enough respect to actually perform for kings (let alone tavern crowds).
Halflings (Flavor). I know it all stemmed from Hobbits, but really its a race whose flavor is to be annoying and childish which usually turns out to be at very least annoying. Also, they are like half-humans, which is just weird. I like the concept of Faen from Arcana Evolved much more than Halflings and Gnomes (even though Faen have a little bit of silly flavor).
Half-Orcs (mechanically). While the dwarf gets too much, the half-orc gets too little. A net -2 to stats is harsh, with very little balancing it out. Also, half-orcs tend to be rather cookie cut from a few molds and kinda boring and 1-dimensional.
Half-Elves (mechanically). Someone suggested a Half-Elf feat years ago - basically you take that feat as your human feat to gain some elf bonuses. You also get elf-blood and can qualify for prestige classes. Imo, that works a lot more elegantly than presenting them as a seperate class with random charisma-based skill bonuses.
My all-time favorite races?
Humans - one of the most powerful races, but fitting for a dominant species focused on flexibility and adaptability.
Elves - strong but with a strong penalty to a key stat. They border on having too many abilities but dont cross the border. Very good flavor. I like the base elf, I don't dig all the variants.
Faen - excellently replace halflings and gnomes with a single race, and even hearken back to celtic myth better than those do these days (esp with Spryte transformation).
Dwarves (Flavor) - a great foil to the dandy elf is the gruff dwarf.
Mighty Veil
First Post
I wanted to go into details on my 2 picks.
First. The LotR movies made halflings okay in my eyes. D&D's Kenderling/gypsies though... suck.
My 2 picks were: Half-elf and Gnome.
Maybe if I read the books Gary got his version of gnomes from. I might have a new appreciation with them. Maybe not. I just don't see much point of them, unless you're talking power gaming. When I do use them. I rewrite their description. I make mine tinkers of arcane magic. They short, skinny with gnarly features.
Half-elf I hate to pick. I LIKE the concept of them. As a teen they were like the Gen-X of races. Drow seems to of filled that role now. The whole concept of them as the loner race - elves accept them fully and men don't relate to them. It's not appealing at age 30.
On paper, they're usless! Better to be an elf or man. I give them human's skill bonus in my games, and have tested out other ideas too. Still, no go. Only when I gave them a +2 CHA and no penalty. Where players keen to them. I changed the concept that they were like high-men to men, and a race elves viewed as great leaders (since they bridged the gap between men and elves).
I do like half-orcs. But I use the 1e view of them. You're that 10% that looks human. Or, they're their own race. Breed long ago by whoever from men and orcs. None of this stupid, "my mom was human and my dad was a orc". Garbage. As if a human lady would be into a savage cruel orc. As a seperate race from orc and not a half-breed, or as a 10%, you could see some human lady wanting to get it on with a rich, rich, rich adventurer. He might be ugly but he's rich!
First. The LotR movies made halflings okay in my eyes. D&D's Kenderling/gypsies though... suck.
My 2 picks were: Half-elf and Gnome.
Maybe if I read the books Gary got his version of gnomes from. I might have a new appreciation with them. Maybe not. I just don't see much point of them, unless you're talking power gaming. When I do use them. I rewrite their description. I make mine tinkers of arcane magic. They short, skinny with gnarly features.
Half-elf I hate to pick. I LIKE the concept of them. As a teen they were like the Gen-X of races. Drow seems to of filled that role now. The whole concept of them as the loner race - elves accept them fully and men don't relate to them. It's not appealing at age 30.
On paper, they're usless! Better to be an elf or man. I give them human's skill bonus in my games, and have tested out other ideas too. Still, no go. Only when I gave them a +2 CHA and no penalty. Where players keen to them. I changed the concept that they were like high-men to men, and a race elves viewed as great leaders (since they bridged the gap between men and elves).
I do like half-orcs. But I use the 1e view of them. You're that 10% that looks human. Or, they're their own race. Breed long ago by whoever from men and orcs. None of this stupid, "my mom was human and my dad was a orc". Garbage. As if a human lady would be into a savage cruel orc. As a seperate race from orc and not a half-breed, or as a 10%, you could see some human lady wanting to get it on with a rich, rich, rich adventurer. He might be ugly but he's rich!
Friadoc
Explorer
Emirikol said:
Monte Cook did this in Arcana Evolved/Unearthed, which prdouced a race, faen, that is divided into three kinds of faen.
Loresong (Gnome), a spellcaster variant with ability bonus in the proper areas, as well as penalties.
Quickling (Halfling), a physical variant who is obviously quick and prone to action.
Spryte, a metamorphic variant that trades the ability to procreate for various racial abilities and spellcasting advancement. Either loresong or quickling can become a spryte.
However, in AE, simply saying that faen are just Gnomes and Halflings rolled into one would be not only a diservice to the faen, but would be overly simplistic, too.
Now, I picked half-elves and half-orcs, as they could easily be a human with a heritage variant, or something. Basically, pick a human and then have the option of being pure human, elven touched or orcish touched human.
Out of all the races, the variance between humans and 'half's are minor and not as diverse as the other species.
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Need_A_Life
First Post
Elf and half-elf.
I like half-elves, but with elves gone they're a bit of a stretch.
I like half-elves, but with elves gone they're a bit of a stretch.
I'd strip out the Halflings. They used to be a lot of fun, when they were still tubby little hobbits. Since the annoying kender-isation of them, none of my players are interested.
They prefer Gnomes these days, which is interesting seeing the Gnome-Hate here.
I'd also lose the half-elf. It's a silly idea, and one not given any decent mechanical backing, which results in a fairly dull, unnapealing race. Get them gone.
They prefer Gnomes these days, which is interesting seeing the Gnome-Hate here.
I'd also lose the half-elf. It's a silly idea, and one not given any decent mechanical backing, which results in a fairly dull, unnapealing race. Get them gone.
Robert Ranting
First Post
Half-Elf and Half Orc, first of all because they have terrible mechanical benefits and drawbacks, and nothing would ever convince me to play one. Secondly, I really dislike the idea of halfbreed races, since they often bring in a lot of emotional baggage. If the character isn't dealing with the stereotypical rape origin, then they're still bogged down by predjudice from both of their parents' races. It's a heaping helping of angst that I don't need in my games. Oh, and fodder for lots of terrible interspecies sex jokes, which have gotten really old.
IMC, I use the races from Arcana Evolved, however, effectively nixing all of the D&D core races but humans, and then have made my own homebrew versions of Elves, Orcs, and Dwarves to suit that new racial base line. Even if I went back to D&D entirely, I still wouldn't touch the core races as written, and would need to homebrew something.
Robert "At Least I've *played* a Gnome" Ranting
IMC, I use the races from Arcana Evolved, however, effectively nixing all of the D&D core races but humans, and then have made my own homebrew versions of Elves, Orcs, and Dwarves to suit that new racial base line. Even if I went back to D&D entirely, I still wouldn't touch the core races as written, and would need to homebrew something.
Robert "At Least I've *played* a Gnome" Ranting
ngenius
Adventurer
Getting back to the basics (in terms of player races)
I assume the purpose of this poll is to know whether we wish to get back to the basic races.
The original Dungeons & Dragons (1974 boxes-set) only had four races (human, dwarf, elf, hobbit) and was most likely inspired by J.R.R. Tolkein's Middle Earth.
Hence, I voted to eliminate the Half-orcs and Half-elves and even the Gnomes (though we were only given 2 options).
I assume the purpose of this poll is to know whether we wish to get back to the basic races.
The original Dungeons & Dragons (1974 boxes-set) only had four races (human, dwarf, elf, hobbit) and was most likely inspired by J.R.R. Tolkein's Middle Earth.
Hence, I voted to eliminate the Half-orcs and Half-elves and even the Gnomes (though we were only given 2 options).
I'd take out Humans.
They don't have a lot of flavor, they're a bit too strong, and in the world of the fantastical it blows that the go to option for everyone from the noob to the lazy to the munchkin is something as boring as the human.
Then halflings. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for mini-humans to be running around.
The Half-Elf and Half-orc thing can be easily fixed by calling them subtypes, just like there are mountain and deep dwarves and the duergar.
I'd replace the halflings with Goblins and give Goblins a much larger role in Dungeons and Dragons than just mooks to Cleave through for low level parties.
They don't have a lot of flavor, they're a bit too strong, and in the world of the fantastical it blows that the go to option for everyone from the noob to the lazy to the munchkin is something as boring as the human.
Then halflings. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for mini-humans to be running around.
The Half-Elf and Half-orc thing can be easily fixed by calling them subtypes, just like there are mountain and deep dwarves and the duergar.
I'd replace the halflings with Goblins and give Goblins a much larger role in Dungeons and Dragons than just mooks to Cleave through for low level parties.
Grimstaff
Explorer
Halflings, in the current edition, have kind of replaced the traditional gnome role, of nimble tricksters with a cunning and moderately serious streak. Maybe if halflings were geared back towards the jolly, gluttonous, and occasionally malicious "hobbits" of D&D yore, both they and the gnome would have amore secure place in the game again.
Half-orc has, mechanically, been geared specifically towards tanking, and away from its more tradional roles as Thief or Cleric/Assassin. Half-orc seemed a bit more craftly, silent, and deadly when it was first introduced, and not quite so, well, "Warhammer" as it is now.
Half-elf, I think, has a lot of untapped roleplaying potential in the current edition of the game simply because they suck so bad mechanically that no one ever plays them. I'm sure if they get "fixed" in the next edition (possibly by being able to pick the special abilities of whichever race they favor instead of just getting the least of both races) we'll see a lot of players jump on this race, eager for a change of pace.
Something I did with my homebrew setting, btw, was shake off the racial stereotypes a bit, to give the players something fresh to play:
Human: 5 subraces with terrain-specific special abilities: Urbanites, Ruralites, Desert Folk, Woodsmen, and barbaric pict-like folk.
Dwarf: Wiry, dextrous, moustachioed, secretive Foresters with magnificent Viking-style wooden mansions and temples. Favored Class: Ranger
Elf: Tall, aloof, merciless, Usually isolated in high mountain citadels and deep, magically formed halls beneath hills and behind waterfalls. Very xenophobic. Favored Class still wizard.
Gnomes: Malicious, conniving "fallen elves", punished by the gods for their avarice and treachery. Living on the fringes of human lands, grifters with an oddly uncahracteristic ability to craft art and artifacts of incredible beauty. Favored Classes: Rogue or Illusionist.
Lizardfolk: Fallen folk of the once dominant civilazation on the continent, fitting in where ever they can. Worship forbidden Elemental Gods. Noble but tragically misguided. Favored Class: Druid.
Half-orc has, mechanically, been geared specifically towards tanking, and away from its more tradional roles as Thief or Cleric/Assassin. Half-orc seemed a bit more craftly, silent, and deadly when it was first introduced, and not quite so, well, "Warhammer" as it is now.
Half-elf, I think, has a lot of untapped roleplaying potential in the current edition of the game simply because they suck so bad mechanically that no one ever plays them. I'm sure if they get "fixed" in the next edition (possibly by being able to pick the special abilities of whichever race they favor instead of just getting the least of both races) we'll see a lot of players jump on this race, eager for a change of pace.
Something I did with my homebrew setting, btw, was shake off the racial stereotypes a bit, to give the players something fresh to play:
Human: 5 subraces with terrain-specific special abilities: Urbanites, Ruralites, Desert Folk, Woodsmen, and barbaric pict-like folk.
Dwarf: Wiry, dextrous, moustachioed, secretive Foresters with magnificent Viking-style wooden mansions and temples. Favored Class: Ranger
Elf: Tall, aloof, merciless, Usually isolated in high mountain citadels and deep, magically formed halls beneath hills and behind waterfalls. Very xenophobic. Favored Class still wizard.
Gnomes: Malicious, conniving "fallen elves", punished by the gods for their avarice and treachery. Living on the fringes of human lands, grifters with an oddly uncahracteristic ability to craft art and artifacts of incredible beauty. Favored Classes: Rogue or Illusionist.
Lizardfolk: Fallen folk of the once dominant civilazation on the continent, fitting in where ever they can. Worship forbidden Elemental Gods. Noble but tragically misguided. Favored Class: Druid.
