If you want to see chaotic evil in real life...

[Angcuru]

Actually, something is only capable of being innocent if it is just as equally capable of being not innocent. Which animals are not. Animals cannot be ascribed status as being innocent, as they have no choice or capablility of becoming corrupt or evil.

Humans only have a history of being capable of evil acts. Few humans are really evil. Children ARE innocent, until they perform acts that remove from them that innocence.

 

[Uzumaki]

Sterilize them and lock 'em up. I'm tired of people being treated more gently than other animals. I swear, I can't wait for this species to die out.

I sorta get what you're saying Angcuru, but I think that animals fall into the label of innocence. Since they don't have the capacity to have truly malicious intent, they can't sin or defile themselves. Children are only innocent because they're ignorant.

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

Actually, something is only capable of being innocent if it is just as equally capable of being not innocent. Which animals are not. Animals cannot be ascribed status as being innocent, as they have no choice or capablility of becoming corrupt or evil.

Humans only have a history of being capable of evil acts. Few humans are really evil. Children ARE innocent, until they perform acts that remove from them that innocence.

I agree with uzumaki in that animals are innocent because they are incapable of acting maliciously, at least to human definition. I agree that babies are the closest thing we have to innocense in humanity, but since I believe in reincarnation it is hard to say that a baby is innocent without knowing that every life it has ever lived has ended before it had a chance to be malicious, and I am sorry, children act malicious all the time, mainly because they do not yet know any better. Watch a child toy with an animal, intentionally hurting it because it acts funny when he does. He may be ignorant of what he is doing, but it is still malicious I feel. Course, as I said, I knew a lot of people wouldn't like my comment, but that really doesn't bother me;P I am who I am and it doesn't mean I think any less of people (actually I think veyr ighly of humanity) or that acts like this anger me any less.

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

/snip...
The other scenario is that these were just a group of kids who for a whole slew of reasons have developed into pitiless, merciless, sadists (which bar no argument is the fault of the parents and to a lesser degree, other such adult figures, like it or not), and this was just another act of amusement for them, at the expense of a dog and her pups...

I would figure this being the closest to the truth. I'm also glad to see that you are putting the blame on the parents. I never much liked the idea that videogames, movies, rock&roll music, and d&d(especially) was the reason for all the violence from youngsters. All of the following, except for D&D, are labeled the age that they should be played at. Add in the fact that, as kids, the parents are buying them these things and any fault that could go to the games, etc. should be put on the parents. It seems that few are willing to put the blame where it truly belongs: some parents not raising their kids!

Sorry for the rant...but it is late, I'm exhausted, and this has always been a big pet peeve of mine.

To get back to the topic. I do not think these kids should be exiled or whatnot, but something severe should happen to them. Counceling and strict detention I'd guess. Also, if I was the police I'd take a long, hard look at the parents of these kids. Most kids behave the way they do because of something in the home from what I've seen.

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

The level of this crime is pretty heinous, but these things happen on a smaller scale every year at about this time. My girlfriend works at the Veterinary Emergency Hospital that services the county, which the animal control officers always bring wounded animals to. I hear lots of horror stories around July 4th of pets either getting attacked with fireworks, or working themselves into such a frenzy over nearby explosions that they escape the yard or house.

Please make sure you keep your pets securely locked up (cats too!). This is pretty much good advice all year long, but especially around July 4th.

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

The level of this crime is pretty heinous, but these things happen on a smaller scale every year at about this time. My girlfriend works at the Veterinary Emergency Hospital that services the county, which the animal control officers always bring wounded animals to. I hear lots of horror stories around July 4th of pets either getting attacked with fireworks, or working themselves into such a frenzy over nearby explosions that they escape the yard or house.

Please make sure you keep your pets securely locked up (cats too!). This is pretty much good advice all year long, but especially around July 4th.

And halloween when all the wannabes that don't understand the first thing about satanism or paganism go out and grab your animals for "sacrifices (I've lost three animals in my life due to this, two of them were locked up inside a fence. I really wish people would do their research better. Since I don't think any of the little high school kids in oklahoma know anything about goetic magic I am assuming they think they're satanists or witches or something, animal sacrifice is so rare anymore in real religions/cuircles.

 

[Darmanicus]

Something like this happened years back near where I lived. The only difference was that it was a squirrel and the orafice used wasn't its mouth. There are some seriously sick people out there.

 

[Dimwhit]

If this was over at Nothingland, I could properly put to words my thoughts on those kids. But this is EN World, so I'll just add my disgust to the pile.

 

[Pielorinho]

And halloween when all the wannabes that don't understand the first thing about satanism or paganism go out and grab your animals for "sacrifices (I've lost three animals in my life due to this,

Kaelon, please understand that I'm not questioning your honesty or anything like that, but do you have a news report or a police report on this case that you'd be willing to share with me?

I work for a humane society, and a few years ago I was trying to research the commonly-held belief among animal shelters that Satanists adopted black or white animals for ritual sacrifice just before Hallowe'en. Not only could I not find any verifiable instances of this occurring: I couldn't even find any verifiable cases of folks having their animals stolen for sacrifices around Hallowe'en. My googling skills may have failed me, and I'd be very interested in seeing some of these cases; if we can see them, we'll incorporate them in our annual Hallowe'en warning (which is usually confined to warning folks about keeping their animals in a back room when kids come trick-or-treating, to avoid unpleasant encounters, and not letting animals eat candy, and that sort of thing).

That said, there's definitely a spate of horrific animal cruelty around Independence Day. I think it's because people have a morbid curiosity, and access to explosives and fire; whereas most folks have a conscience that squelches their morbid curiosity, some folks lack that conscience.

We do education in schools, with the goal of getting kids to see animals as creatures worthy of compassion. Hopefully, we can prevent some of these horrific events from occurring, and equally we hope that we can thereby steer kids away from violence toward humans later in life.

Dogs set on fire, kittens burned alive on a barbecue grills, fireworks in a dog's mouth--this is a bad time of year.

Daniel

 

[hwoolsey]

If I recall correctly, animal tortue is only one of several markers for someone being a serial killer. Admittedly, it's messed up, but just one doesn't mark you for life.

I must say I'm a bit upset by everyone who says exile them or hurt them or what not. That is, IMO, just as bad as what they have done. Rather, I think a combination of jail and rehabilitation with counseling is the better way to go. Who we are today doesn't dictate who we are tomorrow, it just suggests. Rather than making these kids' lives even more messed up, why don't we try and do the right thing and make them better?

Maybe it's just too novel a concept though.

True, but both psychology and business (two large, behavior-researching segments) use behavioral interviewing - because past behavior is one of the best indicators of future behavior. Who we are doesn't dictate, but it does indicate.

Hank