If you want to see chaotic evil in real life...

[Kahuna Burger]

I couldn't even find any verifiable cases of folks having their animals stolen for sacrifices around Hallowe'en. My googling skills may have failed me, and I'd be very interested in seeing some of these cases; if we can see them, we'll incorporate them in our annual Hallowe'en warning (which is usually confined to warning folks about keeping their animals in a back room when kids come trick-or-treating, to avoid unpleasant encounters, and not letting animals eat candy, and that sort of thing).

when I wrote a similar sheet for a pet owner's newspaper a few years back I called the local animal control for advice on that sort of thing and their general take was "If it does happen its very rare, and why give anyone any ideas?" Instead I made a generic recommendation that pets be kept in due to increased crowds, noise and confusion.

Kahuna Burger

 

[TwilightWhisper]

Just cane whip them IN PUBLIC, AND ON TELEVISION, like they do in Southeast Asia. Period. Capital punishment doesn't always mean death! If I caught my kids doing that @$#%, I would turn them in! And I'm not even kidding!

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

Kaelon, please understand that I'm not questioning your honesty or anything like that, but do you have a news report or a police report on this case that you'd be willing to share with me?

I work for a humane society, and a few years ago I was trying to research the commonly-held belief among animal shelters that Satanists adopted black or white animals for ritual sacrifice just before Hallowe'en. Not only could I not find any verifiable instances of this occurring: I couldn't even find any verifiable cases of folks having their animals stolen for sacrifices around Hallowe'en. My googling skills may have failed me, and I'd be very interested in seeing some of these cases; if we can see them, we'll incorporate them in our annual Hallowe'en warning (which is usually confined to warning folks about keeping their animals in a back room when kids come trick-or-treating, to avoid unpleasant encounters, and not letting animals eat candy, and that sort of thing).

That said, there's definitely a spate of horrific animal cruelty around Independence Day. I think it's because people have a morbid curiosity, and access to explosives and fire; whereas most folks have a conscience that squelches their morbid curiosity, some folks lack that conscience.

We do education in schools, with the goal of getting kids to see animals as creatures worthy of compassion. Hopefully, we can prevent some of these horrific events from occurring, and equally we hope that we can thereby steer kids away from violence toward humans later in life.

Dogs set on fire, kittens burned alive on a barbecue grills, fireworks in a dog's mouth--this is a bad time of year.

Daniel

Let's put it this way, I am pagan and know how to practice ritual, I also know about Goetic practices. I know what a fake ritual killing is when I see it, especially when you walk out in your yard and find your puppy with it's back broken, a surgical cut down it's middle and its intestines spread out around it with a pentagram drawn. None of it was done right, even if it were one of the few occult circles that still practice animal sacrfice, so it leads me to believe it was a couple kids wanting to do something fun on halloween.

I don't like them being used in official warnings because the people who do the warnings never seem to understand what they are talking about and claim that *satanists* do this stuff. I know a number of satanists and most of them think more of their animals than they do of each other. In rural oklahoma you don't report stuff like this unfortunately, because you will get one of three reactions:

a) It was just some kids playing around (which it was) and it was only animals (hard fact but held by many rural country folk)

b) It was satanists, we need to have a town meeting and try to find the pagans and get them out of town (you can understand why I am leary of this one)

c) Things like that don't happen in this town...am I understood?

None of those responses helps anything so we burried the dog and left it at that. The reason I am pretty sure the other two lost animals were the same kind of thing was that one was kidnapped during the same period of time that the police did find a mass of dead unidentifiable animals in the city park. (you may be able to find info through the nowata oklahoma newspaper but it was over 15 years ago and nothing in nowata is online.) And the other one I have reason to believe it was done to point the finger at me because I follow Bast. My kitten was kidnapped and a rumor started that i sacrificed it. Ignorance at its best in rural oklahoma and texas ::shrugs::

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

when I wrote a similar sheet for a pet owner's newspaper a few years back I called the local animal control for advice on that sort of thing and their general take was "If it does happen its very rare, and why give anyone any ideas?" Instead I made a generic recommendation that pets be kept in due to increased crowds, noise and confusion.

Kahuna Burger

I agree, it's best to just warn people to keep their pets indoors when there will be a lot of strangers around. I've just had some very bad experiences and it showed when I posted that original post. Note I also don't nec say they happen often, and mainly in very restrained small towns where the kids do it to lash out at papa church, like painting pentagrams (and not even upside down) on the school walls. I guess minors, booze, drugs, and hillbilly mentality are a bad mix (note that I am from oklahoma, not bashing anyone here, just saying that certain mentality is there in most small towns).

 

[AFGNCAAP]

[IMHO, negative-emotion-heavy rant-mode]

They are not people--they are things. And as such, these things should be utterly destroyed. No execution; no funeral; no grave. Just simply destroyed & thrown away like any other irrepairable, dangerous thing.

Monsters such as these call out to be slain.

[/IMHO, negative-emotion-heavy rant-mode]

Sorry about that--I just can't stand anyone who commits such cruelty like this at all. It really gets to me.

And yes, animal abuse is a key behavior to serial killers--it's taking a living, breathing creature capable of feeling pain, reveling in the pain caused to the creature, and ultimately ensuring that the last few moments of that creature's life are filled only with pain, fear, and horror. And for someone capable of commiting acts like this, it won't take much to move from one sort of victim to another.

There is a part of me that hopes that those responsible will feel remorse for their actions, and do everything they can to repent for their past deeds, & even act to ensure that similar incidents don't occur again. But then again, another part of me feels that if there was any decency in them in the first place, they never would have done this at all.

 

[Turanil]

I must say that when you are a child, you are totally unaware of the consequences of your acts. You are totally unaware of others' suffering (be they animals or humans). The only thing which matters is to have fun, you don't notice there is something else beyond your own fun, and that maybe for others it's no fun at all.

I have been a bad kid myself. I never went to the point of killing animals like that, but have done a few bad things anyway. With my brother, we would throw the cat high in the air, just to see if he would land on his feet as some rumors or books would pretend. We did stop when we had verified it wasn't the case at all. But in the meantime we had much traumatised the cat. Later, I had a couple of opportunity for gratuitous vandalism. I especially remember the belongings found in a poor apartment. We never thought of the person who could lived there, more than probably very poor; the idea just looked funny at the time. It wasn't to intentionally make someone suffer, it's just that vandalism seemed a funny idea on the moment. Now that I am an adult I am rather sad at what I did, and would be very upset of seeing my children doing that for example. But at the time, it was pure inconsequence, not thinking at anything but the idea just appears funny on the moment.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I would figure this being the closest to the truth. I'm also glad to see that you are putting the blame on the parents. I never much liked the idea that videogames, movies, rock&roll music, and d&d(especially) was the reason for all the violence from youngsters. All of the following, except for D&D, are labeled the age that they should be played at. Add in the fact that, as kids, the parents are buying them these things and any fault that could go to the games, etc. should be put on the parents. It seems that few are willing to put the blame where it truly belongs: some parents not raising their kids!

Well, you know, some people are just born rotten. I've known some pretty good people who ended up with a rotten kid. Usually just one kid out of a whole family, too. It's not always the parents' fault. Sometimes people are just broken, and there's not much you can do about it except punish and clean up the mess.

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

Well, you know, some people are just born rotten. I've known some pretty good people who ended up with a rotten kid. Usually just one kid out of a whole family, too. It's not always the parents' fault. Sometimes people are just broken, and there's not much you can do about it except punish and clean up the mess.

You are absolutely right, some people are just bad from the start and no matter how kind the family is, the person turns out wrong. While that is true, I also feel that crappy parenting has a lot to do with the increase in dispicable adults, teens, and children.

 

[Old Fart]

I must say that when you are a child, you are totally unaware of the consequences of your acts. You are totally unaware of others' suffering (be they animals or humans).

That's not my experience with children - I've seen 1-year olds show empathy and compassion for other people and animals. However, you are right that some children are either unaware or uncaring of the consequences of their actions.

Angcuru, thank you for your insight into the psychological motivators of the perpetrators. However, I would like to point out that animal cruelty is also an indicator of sociopathic behavior - which is incurable and often untreatable.

Were that the case with these kids, I'd have to agree with AFGNCAAP's solution.

However, the most likely scenario is the one most of the posters to this thread have surmised - that the children have not been properly parented.
While the parents should consider therapy and education in correcting their children's behavior, IMHO they need to first implement an old-fashioned parental solution, no matter how much it may have fallen out of favor.

In short, these brats need to get there a***s whipped, but good!

 

[Faerl'Elghinn]

I used to know this kid who liked to put puppies in plastic bags and throw them into the water. His name was David Kohls . He had gone to my grade school, and was a freshman (held back a year) when he didn't show up for school one day. We later learned why (see link).