if your DM gave you 200,000 in magicals-what would you buy?

[Rystil Arden]

Don't forget an amulet of natural armour Diirk! The secret as to why a wizard doesn't need too much more AC at this level is that by this time, the party is doing something very very wrong if the wizard is consistently in melee combat. Heck, if you cast Repulsion, most big butch melee monsters won't be able to come close, and there's other abjurations out there too, plus Fly to get you out of harm's way (and if you're in a dungeon environment and can't fly, that also means that your buddies can probably block the creature's advance by standing in its way). Really, by this level, unless your tanks are Frenzied Berserkers or something, their job has probably shifted to guarding the casters from harm. And really, many of the CR 12 monsters won't always hit even AC 25 (Purple Worm will but he can't make the Will Save) leaving you with perhaps the Colossal Monstrous Scorpion. Of course, the Scorpion can't fly, so you can just kill that from a distance.

 

[Diirk]

Well my sorceror had a carpet of flying so he had that flight bit covered without even wasting a spell known on it.

The reason for no amulet of natural armour was the amulet of health instead, but thats personal preference.. personally I don't see maximising AC for sorceror/wizards to be a particularly important facet of their characters, I'd rather just keep out of the way of the bad guys and cast from a distance

 

[Nail]

....please post your character, ....(snip)....but unless your playing in a low magic campaign ....then I would say its almost impossible.

You've got to be kidding me.

Impossible?

"I don't think that word means what you think it means."

 

[Rystil Arden]

You've got to be kidding me.

Impossible?

"I don't think that word means what you think it means."

I concur. I have a level 19-21 party that is more-or-less broke except for one guy(well, they do have 2 minor artifacts between them) thanks to Mordenkainen's Disjunction and overzealousness with True Resurrection (they insist on True Rez for cohorts, allied NPCs and PCs, including the time that there were 6/7 character and cohort deaths in the same battle, the guy who survived is the only one with any equipment left because he refused to sell his own stuff for others' Resurrections). They wanted to buy a scroll of something like a 5th-level spell, and they had to sell their spellcasters off for a week casting spells for gold to get it. Still, despite the fact that the wizard always gets disjoined and has absolutely 0 magic items, the barbarian has a minor artifact sword (although he has feats for Greataxe, so he isn't exactly ecstatic) and the Girdle of De Rah (the 2E minor artifact that casts Cure Critical Wounds on you 3/day, but one week out of every four you get thronged by a crowd of pawing admirers), and the azer cleric has +4 armour, two strong magical axes, and various other items totalling to his expected wealth, the party is still able to overcome ANYTHING I THROW AT THEM. This includes insane homebrewed creatures with template combinations that have been never meant to see the light of day, such as the beholder that had energy drain eyes that functioned within its antimagic cone that affected the whole room, leaving the fighters unable to strike it properly and the casters unable to cast (they all nearly died, but won by having the psion NPC put out the eye so the rest could finish it off, and the psion was killed).

So sorry for going long, but I will say that it is ludicrous to assume that majour inventory value is required at high levels in order to win. The nymph wizard is dangerous enough unequipped that she has consistently killed the enemy and/or much of her own party with backfired spells, like the twinned lightning-substituted meteor swarm that she cast inside a Gaussian sphere. True, they probably get killed more often from the fight due to lack of equipment, but they still win.

 

[ARandomGod]

Still, despite the fact that the wizard always gets disjoined and has absolutely 0 magic items,...

Just a small note of personal preference... The disjunction spell doesn't ever exist in any games I play in or GM. As the GM it's easy, I just don't put it in and don't give access to the spell. As a player I tell the GM that I'd rather they get rid of any items they judge to be excess in some other way, and I bring up the potential of replacing the disjunction spell with a high level dispell instead.

Then, if the spell ever gets cast anyway, I never play in that game again. It's sort of a dealbreaker with me. You want to steal all my items and throw my character naked in the River Styx? Fine. Good gaming and I'm sure I'll enjoy it and come out ahead. You want to cast Disjunction on my once, as is? Nope. I'm going home.

Sorry, just had to throw my incredible distast for that spell out there.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Just a small note of personal preference... The disjunction spell doesn't ever exist in any games I play in or GM. As the GM it's easy, I just don't put it in and don't give access to the spell. As a player I tell the GM that I'd rather they get rid of any items they judge to be excess in some other way, and I bring up the potential of replacing the disjunction spell with a high level dispell instead.

Then, if the spell ever gets cast anyway, I never play in that game again. It's sort of a dealbreaker with me. You want to steal all my items and throw my character naked in the River Styx? Fine. Good gaming and I'm sure I'll enjoy it and come out ahead. You want to cast Disjunction on my once, as is? Nope. I'm going home.

Sorry, just had to throw my incredible distast for that spell out there.

Sounds like you're pretty attached to your character's kewl toys.

 

[Nail]

I concur. ...

Just like practically everyone on this board, I'd imagine.

Currently I play in 2 games: I DM one, I have a Clr 14 in the other. The DM in my other group has a *much* different style than I do....and he gives out plenty of loot...and even in that game I have about the wealth expected at that level.

Look, Sir Thrn.: You're posting on ENWorld Rules forum. There are hundreds...nay thousands of experienced gamers here. (100's of thousands? I can dream, can't I?) Most of us have been playing for years, if not decades. Are you telling me that the rest of us didn't notice a problem like this? I'm flabergasted.

In 3.5e D&D, weath is correlated -- sorry, too technical: "directly connected" -- to PC power. It's not some random number pulled out of someone's a___. It's been thought thru, play-tested, and seen years of "real world" gaming experience. And for the vast majority of cases, the wealth given a PC is sufficient to meet the challenges that PCs are expected to face. The entire CR system (and EL, APL, ECL, etc) is based on this premise. It's not only not "impossible" that a PC survives with such a wealth total, it's expected and designed for.




That said: hey, if you want to arbitrarily double (heck: Triple It!) the wealth of your PCs, go for it. It's your game. But that sort of thing is most definitely "house rules" material, and not necessary for PC survival.

Unless, I suppose, you blow it all on some ring. I hear Gollum got in trouble with that.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

Hey guys & gals...I dont play in high power campaigns all that much, I tend to favor low magic campaigns, so dont make the assumption that I do. That being said I know Im in the rules forum so I thank you for correcting me with them, however I know for a fact 100% that every group I've brought this up to may quote the rules but in practice not 1 of the groups I know goes by this particular rule of x amount of $ per level. They may keep a lid on the campaign so no one player is completly over powering for the cr of that level. I have even gone over some other groups characters to see average "par for the course" built fighters, barbarians, rogues etc that are well over 100,000 by the 12th level.

So maybe Im trying to say "yes it says that in the book, yes that is the rule but I have yet to see anyone actually use this as a rule inforcing the exact guidline."

Also I have seen several responses to this thread about optimiziong your magicals....in our campiagns all of our campaigns magicals dont exactly grow on trees. Most of the time you dont get to select your item outright, it is usually removed from the dead cold grasp of a conquered foe, or found in underground ruins, temples and tombs. Very rarely can a PC walk into a town and ask to buy magicals, this would be reserved for the richest of nobles etc. In townes where they know who they are dealing with. The players may be from a town that they know and the Wizard there can make them magics that they request. But walking into a strange and new town asking for a wizard, your opening doors for thieving wizards.

Most of the time if someone in our group wants a magical, a specific magical the party wizard or cleric must make it or they may seek out a wizard/cleric who for a price will make it for them. Point being is the party very rarely gets to "optimize their magicals" they may select from those available from looting but cannot simply open the DM's guide and select a magical they want..unless the wizard is willing to get whats needed and spend a few days (time pending item of course) to make it, if he can.

The only reason for this post initially was because my group and the DM came up with this $ buy in they debated the amounts and there you have it.

This thread has now become me questioning it would seem the majority of you responding. I question/doubt very seriously that any of your 12th level pc strictly adhere to this 88,000 for a 12th level pc. Not saying your untruthfull as I know your quoting the rules the RAW (which took me a week to figure out what RAW meant) the reason I say this is when you go thru an adventure the loot that is taken the amount of coin you take will greatly differ from adventure to adventure and not one of these adventures are made with this rule in mind...The makers of the dungeon dont know what your party has or what the players need. Albeit the dungeon is made with the cr in mind which includes only an approximation of the parties abilities. The makers dont know if you have a +1 sword or a +4 shield.

This is not an exact science here its role playing, maybe 1 12th level fighter in the group has a +3 bastard sword of wounding, and the barbarian has a +3 great axe of sundering are these magicals or ones of like power not in your 12th level campaign? If they are in it then they cost by themselves 50,000 + each...these are just examples as was the robe of the ArchMagi....Im not obsessed with the robe as it would seem 1 or more of you implied. I am just using it as an example of what a 12th level Wizard might have.

Thorncrest

 

[Rystil Arden]

Just a small note of personal preference... The disjunction spell doesn't ever exist in any games I play in or GM. As the GM it's easy, I just don't put it in and don't give access to the spell. As a player I tell the GM that I'd rather they get rid of any items they judge to be excess in some other way, and I bring up the potential of replacing the disjunction spell with a high level dispell instead.

Then, if the spell ever gets cast anyway, I never play in that game again. It's sort of a dealbreaker with me. You want to steal all my items and throw my character naked in the River Styx? Fine. Good gaming and I'm sure I'll enjoy it and come out ahead. You want to cast Disjunction on my once, as is? Nope. I'm going home.

Sorry, just had to throw my incredible distast for that spell out there.

I houseruled Disjunction to require a Dispel check, with the opposing caster rolling a 1 rather than an 11 as per normal Dispel rules, and as a DM I don't throw it at my players. That said, I allow them to cast it, but my NPCs prepare for it with Mastery of Counterspelling or Rings of Spell Battle (what sane NPC spellcaster wouldn't especially those who spent incredible resources on their magic already). All the PC item loss in my campaign due to Disjunction has been through the PCs whacking themselves with their own Disjunction flung back at them. After the wizard crafted her fourth Headband of Intellect +6 and then Disjoined it again, she just stopped casting the spell. So I'm not some evil DM who tries to take away my PCs' magic items. My players are just that careless and willing to repeat mistakes. My campaign's wizard is an abjurer and she never protects herself with abjurations, preferring to optimise her spells, which is all well and good until those spells come back and hit her. Heck, she's an Archmage now and she still doesn't know any 2nd-level abjuration spells. But she does know Disjunction...

 

[Jdvn1]

I question/doubt very seriously that any of your 12th level pc strictly adhere to this 88,000 for a 12th level pc.

You're right. My 12th level PCs had less. My whole party might not have added up to 88,000 gp.

That's what you call low-magic world, you see.

Of course, your experience may vary. That's the point of the boards and these questions, to get different people's experiences. Ours are clearly different from yours.