Ignoble Death by Ray of Frost!?!

[loviatarfrostbringer]

As DM, I'm really starting to feel the sting of one of my players. He is playing an Arcane Trickster and has 3 or 4 dice of backstab total combined with Haste & Improved Invisibility & Fly/Poly Self. Does it seem right for a cantrip to wing out that much damage?

I know that any amount of concealment negates backstab, and I know that the creature's successful save halves the BS damage as well, and also a good chunk of monster are immune to crits/BS - but has anyone else come up with clever ways to make the Trickster choose a safer route? Or a house rule limiting damage from BS based off of some mathematics? I know this is supposed to be official rules queries, but any help would be appreciated.

Starting to get frustrated...

 

[hammymchamham]

. Does it seem right for a cantrip to wing out that much damage?

How is that different that using a dagger for 1d4 instead of 1d3 ice. Does it seem right that a simple weapon to wing out that much damage?

 

[Xarlen]

No, when it gets absurd is when they use a shiruken.

 

[Wippit Guud]

How about a blowgun dart? That's what, a small syringe in size, maybe?

"Now hold still, Shelly, and we'll give you your booster shot..." 3d6 damage to the 5 year old "Ooops...."

 

[Apok]

No, when it gets absurd is when they use a shiruken.

Just so long as you remember that Sneak Attack damage is applied only once per attack. In the case of shurikens, 1 attack = 3 shurikens. You don't apply Sneak Attack damage (or any other precision type damage) to more than one shuriken. This is why the Sneak Attack/Elemental Orb combo doesn't work.

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm playing a rogue in our latest campaign, and finding that I rival the greataxe-wielding barbarian for per-hit damage output.

Yep, me with my 12 strength and a dagger am doing an average of 18 points of damage per sneak-attack hit.

Until I saw this in play, I didn't really appreciate how unimportant a weapon's base damage was for a rogue -- or why weapon finesse was such an incredible feat for a rogue.

Daniel

 

[hong]

I know that any amount of concealment negates backstab, and I know that the creature's successful save halves the BS damage as well, and also a good chunk of monster are immune to crits/BS - but has anyone else come up with clever ways to make the Trickster choose a safer route?

The flying, improved invis route seems eminently safe to me. Certainly safer than trying to sneak attack in melee, anyway.

... or did you mean safer for the OTHER GUY? If so, why on earth would he want to do that?

Or a house rule limiting damage from BS based off of some mathematics? I know this is supposed to be official rules queries, but any help would be appreciated.

Starting to get frustrated...

Your beef is less with the cantrip, as with his overreliance on haste, fly and improved invis. Would you prefer he used a +3 bow and +3 arrows, combined with greater magic weapon?

Use a few monsters with blindsight and/or missile weapons, and that should get him to be a bit more circumspect. Or just throw lots of constructs and undead at him. No sneak attack damage = crippled arcane trickster.

 

[mseds99]

Huh?

Apok,

where exactly does it say that sneak attack damage is only good for one attack? Is that true only for shurikans? What about multiple attacks with a dagger or something? I always assumed that each attack was given sneak attack damage.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Huh?

where exactly does it say that sneak attack damage is only good for one attack?

No, no... it's only good once per attack.

Certain attack forms - three shuriken, Manyshot, or Elemental Orb spells, for example - qualify as a single attack, despite multiple impacts, and only the first hit receives SA damage.

Three stabs with a dagger is three attacks, and each gets SA damage.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Huh?

where exactly does it say that sneak attack damage is only good for one attack? Is that true only for shurikans?

From the FAQ...

Can a rogue sneak attack with three shuriken if she is
within 30 feet of a target? If each hits, does each gain the
sneak attack bonus?
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspYou apply sneak attack damage only once per attack. If you
use one attack to throw three shuriken, you get to apply sneak
attack bonus damage only once. Sneak attack damage - and a
ranger's favored enemy bonus damage - apply only to one of
the three shuriken that you throw. You do not have enough
precision with the extra shuriken to get bonus sneak attack or
favored enemy damage.