Illusionist Wizards - What about all the monsters that are immune?

[DracoSuave]

Perhaps so, but it's not "fear damage", nor is it "any other [i.e., non-damage] ill effect" of a fear power. If the psychic damage is a fear effect, then the lightning damage of Lightning Serpent must also be a poison effect, which seems questionable at best. (And for the record, WotC CustServ says that a creature immune to poison still takes the lightning damage.)

Every effect of a power with a keyword foo is a foo effect. The reason damage is singled out is because there are additive effects that can apply extra typed damage. So, if you have a racial that adds +1d8 lightning damage to a damage roll, immunity to lightning would kill that lightning damage. But if the power itself was not a lightning power, it would not be effected.

However, if the power -was- a lightning power (say, the extra damage was because of an item power with the Lightning keyword), then the entire effect of the power is negated by immunity to lightning. The damage is a lightning effect. The immobilization is a lightning effect. The ongoing poison damage is, in fact, a lightning effect, because it all has the Lightning keyword.

Contrast with powers that -are- exceptions. For example, there's a power (or 5) in Martial Power that says 'Make a secondary attack. This is has the fear keyword.' The -power- does not have the fear keyword, so immunity to fear does not negate the effects of the power. However, the fear keyword on that one attack is -explicitly- laid out, and so immunity effects it, and only it.

 

[NMcCoy]

However, if the power -was- a lightning power (say, the extra damage was because of an item power with the Lightning keyword), then the entire effect of the power is negated by immunity to lightning. The damage is a lightning effect. The immobilization is a lightning effect. The ongoing poison damage is, in fact, a lightning effect, because it all has the Lightning keyword.

I don't dispute this. However, you are also claiming that the lightning damage of Lightning Serpent is negated by poison immunity because it's a poison effect, correct?

 

[DracoSuave]

Yes. Because, while it is not poison damage, it is still a poison effect.

So, let's say it did ongoing 10 fire damage. Because of the poison keyword, it's -still- a poison effect. So a dwarf gets to apply +5 to saves vs. it.

Immunity: The monster has immunity to the stated kind of damage or effect.

That's the rule. The example is -one- instance. But, immunity is explicitly vs. kinds of damage, -and- kinds of effects. It isn't even restricted to keywords: You can have 'immunity to ranged attacks' or 'immunity to at-will powers' or 'immunity to martial at-will ranged powers'. Of that, only 'martial' is an actual keyword.

For instance, a power that deals acid damage is an acid effect and thus has the acid keyword.

The -power- is the acid effect, not the -damage-. It's explicit. The stuff a power does outside the acid damage is -still- the power, and therefore -is- an acid effect.

 

[FireLance]

Stealth Errata Alert! The latest definition of "Immune" in MM2 states that:

A creature that is immune to a damage type (such as cold or fire), a condition (such as dazed or petrified), or another specific effect (such as disease or forced movement) is not affected by it. A creature that is immune to charm, fear, illusion, poison, or sleep is not affected by the nondamaging effects of a power that has that keyword. A creature that is immune to gaze is not affected by powers that have that keyword.

This means that a creature immune to illusion still takes damage from the power. It just isn't affected by the nondamaging effects.

 

[Thundershield]

In other words, having immunity to a damage type (fire, acid, psychic, etc.) gives you immunity to damage of that type (and secondary effects if those aren't covered by a "flavor" keyword). Makes sense.

Having immunity to "flavor" keywords (illusion, fear, charm, etc.) can then provide immunity to specific kinds of attacks, such as certain debilitating or mind-influencing poisons or psychic attacks that attempt to seize control of your mind, but the immunity provides no protection against actual damage (as you'd need immunity to a damage type for that).

So there's actually three kinds of immunities: Damage immunity, "flavor" immunity, and specific immunity. And then gaze immunity as a special case.

 

[deleteme123456]

So let's look at some examples:

Illusory Ambush (AP), Wizard At-Will 1.
Keyword: Illusion, Psychic
Damage: Psychic
Condition: (no additional keywords)

Target is:
Immune Psychic (I can't figure out how to search the compendium for this, so maybe it doesn't exist, but pretend) (normal vs illusion)
Target takes 0 damage, but does take the -2 to attack rolls.

Target is:
Immune Illusion (normal vs psychic)
Target takes normal damage, but does not take the -2 to attack rolls.


Lightning Serpent (Wizard Daily 9)
Power keywords: Lightning, Poison
Primary damage: Lightning
Condition: Ongoing 5 poison

Creature is: Immune Lightning (normal vs poison)
Creature takes: No primary damage, but the full effect of the ongoing 5 poison

Creature is: Immune Poison (normal vs lightning)
Creature takes: full primary damage, but does not gain the ongoing damage condition.

Creature is: Resist 5+ Poison (normal vs lightning)
Creature takes: Full primary damage, gains the "ongoing damage" condition, but takes no actual damage from it. This could be relevant if you have a power or feat that confers a bonus for attacking creatures suffering from ongoing poison damage.

 

[KarinsDad]

Stealth Errata Alert! The latest definition of "Immune" in MM2 states that:

Nice catch FL.

 

[Mistwell]

Of course, this just brings up the all important question of what skeletons fear more than anything. Dogs? Clowns? Re-runs bumping new episode of their favorite television program?

Anything that reminds them that their soul was sundered from their animus.