I'm done with 3.5

[buzz]

If one customer complains, it's probably not an issue. I'd bet on "user error." If three people complain, it's probably not an issue but we might want to look into it. Once a half-a-dozen or more people complain, we know there's a problem somewhere we should look into.

Having worked in tech support and customer service for many years, I can tell you that it is entirely possible for a bunch of people to complain about something and it still be entirely user error.

It's so much easier to digest than the out of control monster 3.5 has become.

I can sympathize with your position, as I have some similar feelings about HERO lately.

However, I think the odds are quite good that instead of D&D 3.5 being somehow flawed, it's really more one of the following:

1. Your tastes have changed
2. Your tastes never matched up with D&D 3.5 to begin with
3. You're burned out and need a break from D&D
4. You're burned out a need a break from your group.

Personally, I've found turning to earlier editions of D&D and the newer games that emulate them to be generally disappointing, as is playing different games with a given group when it's the group that's bumming me out and not the games we play.

Regardless, go mix it up. Put 3.5 aside and play other games. Play with other people. Play at some cons (if you don't already).

As for some system suggestions:

Savage Worlds
FATE (available free online)
Burning Wheel
The Shadow of Yesterday (available free online)
Questers of the Middle Realms
Iron Gauntlets

 

[Meeki]

The issue people have with 3.5 D&D is they take every book ever created as being rules they need to honor. D&D is based off of a RP system, D20, the point of this current version of D&D using D20 with so much open source is for people to create their own supplements. All you need to enjoy D&D is 3 books, PH, DMG, and MM. That is all. With these three tools you can create anything in the game, come up with your own ideas, or just adlib as you go along.

D20 is a great system, not perfect but simple, if someone wants to do something that isn't RECOMMENDED in the "rules" the DM can quickly develop a scale and tweak it later. As it says in the DMG, the rules laid out are only guides for the DM and players. It is purely up to the people playing it how they want to run it. When a player brings a book to my table that isn't one of the three core they are required to run anything by me that they want to use and I tell them if it is over powered I will nerf your character.

Also attacks of opportunity probably follow the simple idea of hitting your opponent when he is open. If someone is casting a spell and does not have any obvious offensive weapons out that threaten you AND his defense is occupied why the heck wouldnt you reach out and stab him. Same with people moving by you quickly, within 6 seconds moving by someone and attacking them is alot to do, this means you are hustling and thus you won't threaten your opponent really until you end your movement to attack, thus allowing someone a free shot on you.

The whole idea of combat and AoO are simplified in D&D. One offensive action per 6 seconds without any movement is pretty unrealistic, however someone moving 30 ft and making an attack and taking an AoO in the same round also unrealistic but both are simplified to make playing easier. If you don't like AoO that much maybe you can make it so people cannot take them if they moved the round before unless they have combat reflexes or something of the ilk.

Heck, you can design your own D20 system pretty fast. If you sit down with other players and see what they like and dislike I bet you can hash something out in a month.

 

[Voadam]

The issue people have with 3.5 D&D is they take every book ever created as being rules they need to honor. D&D is based off of a RP system, D20, the point of this current version of D&D using D20 with so much open source is for people to create their own supplements. All you need to enjoy D&D is 3 books, PH, DMG, and MM. That is all. With these three tools you can create anything in the game, come up with your own ideas, or just adlib as you go along.

D20 is a great system, not perfect but simple,

Heh. D&D core 3 book d20 can still be pretty cumbersome and mechanically wearying even without adding anything else. Make an ambush encounter with high level drow NPCs, fighters, clerics, and wizards who have spells going. There are lots of little situtation specific details to keep track of. How much work and time does it take to make the stat blocks? How difficult is it to track everything in the combat as a DM? When dispels start getting thrown how much does this complicate the stat blocks you now have to work with?

So I would disagree that the issue is using every book.

 

[Megatron]

I don't get the AoO hate, though. The rules are straightforward enough.

QFT

 

[SavageRobby]

We quit 3x a few years ago, and haven't looked back since. Go check out Castles and Crusades or Savage Worlds (or both!) - they're both great games, simpler and more elegant, and sound like they'd definitely be up your alley.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Attacks of Opportunity can be pretty funny (funny like odd) in some ways.

Like, you get to make 2 attacks in a round at level 1 if some guy runs really fast past you (the first or second being at that guy), whereas if the guy is frozen or tied to the spot next to you, you only get to either attack him, or the combatant that's actually "in front" of you (that being not quite the right phrasing in a facing-less system, naturally).

 

[Edgewood]

All you need to enjoy D&D is 3 books, PH, DMG, and MM. That is all.

QFT. I certainly agree with this statement wholeheartedly. And upon a return to 3.5, that will be the approach that will be taken. I think that I am simply disenchanted and am looking for a new outlet for my DMing urges. I am not looking for a perfect system as it does not exist (If one did, there wouldn't be so many variations out there, and that wouldn't be a good thing). I picked AOO becuase it's an easy target. I could have easily mentioned the grapple rules, mounted combat, or even the clunky tripping rules, but I digress.

I'm sure my dissatisfaction will wane with time. Until then, it's time to explore different avenues.

 

[Kunimatyu]

My group oftentimes has trouble with AoOs - nothing slows a turn down like diagonal movement plus AoOs - such that I have to say "okay, here's the path you want to take to do what you want". I like AoOs when they're a unique feature of the combat, like when the party is fighting Boneclaws, but most of the time, they're just annoying.

These days, I'm finding that True20 allows me the flexibility I want without the bloat of 3.5.

 

[Templeton580]

*

 

[jontherev]

Good luck! I for one absolutely love 3.5. I mean, it's not perfect of course, but it by far beats any other system I have played. There are a ton of rules, I admit, but thanks to the internet, we can find answers fairly easily and quickly. I played 3.0 and then 3.5 only using the core books and maybe 1 or 2 accessories until recently, and I find the extra options available to be a great feature actually. I am probably one of the few who are actually hoping 4th edition doesn't come out for a while. After buying so many books, I'm not very excited about being pressured by my group to start buying a new game system anytime soon, and also losing support for 3.5 (new adventures, etc.). Like I said, best of luck to you.