D&D 4E I'm Not Sure I Can Afford 4e

[jdrakeh]

You realize you've segued into a different issue though.

Not really. People keep saying "RPGs provide infinite fun and are, therefore, a good investment!" as a counterpoint to the OP's entry on the thread (heck, you did so) and I'm responding to that assertion by pointing out that it's based on three faulty assumptions. In that light, it's more a myth than any kind of factual statement. If it isn't topical, people need to quit offfering it up as a counterpoint to the opening post.

Even if somebody only focuses on buying things for one or two RPGs, this by no means guarantees them time or players, nor does it lessen the replay value of other entertainment mediums. It doesn't change anything. The assertion that "RPGs provide infinite entertainment for your money!" is still deeply flawed, whether somebody is investing in dozens of RPGs or just one.

 

[jdrakeh]

Yeah. What does that have to do with my comment?

You claimed that RPGs don't cost much. I'm saying that there is a reason for that. As I outline in post #115, the myth that RPGs provide entertainment in perpetuity is just that -- a myth. Getting any kind of return on an investment in RPGs depends very much upon certain conditions being met, assuming that you buy games to play them. If those conditions aren't met, your return is non-existent in terms of actual use.

 

[Ian Demagi]

Point 3

fnwc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Demagi
Look at the messages, the launch of 4E is barely investor news.

I must have missed the launch date somehow...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Demagi
I think the DDI initiative is an attempt to penetrate the EQ-WoW market segment by using the "D & D brand." I am not convinced that this is going to work, and the economy is certainly not going to help.

WotC as a business, definitely wants to attract newer players. The world-is-a-changin': people are increasingly getting used to the digital world. The success of digital D&D tools such as Fantasy Grounds and eTools shows that there is a market for this. I agree, though the impending recession will have an effect, but it's just as likely to have an effect on WotC as any other business (e.g., Starbucks $1 coffee).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Demagi
Instead of having 6 people paying 7 bucks a week, you have one person paying 15 per week-thats pretty grim math!

D&D in general is a pretty cheap hobby. For the price that I pay for my monthly internet service alone, I could buy two hardcover books.

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Today, 12:40 AM #101
fnwc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drothgery
In my experience -- which may or may not be typical -- while full-time college students are often gamers, they aren't heavy consumers of supplements because they lack money and don't have easy access to anyone they can convince to buy stuff for them. Certainly I buy far more gaming material now than I did when I was in school.



I've read in various places that computer gamers average around 31 years of age. If that's true, I wonder what the average D&D player's age is?

I'd imagine that in your thirties that a new D&D edition wouldn't really be much of a financial burden.


I checked the Harbro board-only one mention of D & D 4E-

As fas as Hasbro forcing WotC into a new edition-I hope I didn't imply that, because I dont believe that happened. I do think that 3E has gone as far as it could go. My real question is DDI. One poster told me the world is a changing and going digital-this is truth.

There are a good number of dinosaurs like me that still play D & D. WotC as gone out of its way to say you don't have to have DDI to play 4E. I believe them, but I also believe that it will be better with DDI-who does not want the best choice if its affordable?

D & D being a cheap hobby-yep that's truth-if you dont believe me, try golf sometime.


D & D has to have new players to remain alive. I agree-hard to believe but the old timers are starting to die off. I have come close to this experience (dont recommmend it-heart attacks suck). Hopefully I have passed a long what good gaming is to my kids... Ian.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Seems to me that if you buy lots of splat books or many different RPGs you're less likely to get your money's worth than if you simply buy the core books and a couple books or just the core books for a few RPGs.

This is simple because if you buy PHB DMG and MM plus 20 or more other books it would take a few years to use all that material (and often times some of it is quite marginal material). Same applies if you 20 different RPGs, only more so, as you're learning 20 different rule sets.

So in short the key to getting your money's worth with D&D (or any RPG) is just buy the core book(s) and maybe 1-3 really good splat books for it (read reviews, look at them in the book store etcetera).

PS- Wow that post was really anti-consumerism.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

So in short the key to getting your money's worth with D&D (or any RPG) is just buy the core book(s) and maybe 1-3 really good splat books for it (read reviews, look at them in the book store etcetera).

BINGO.

If i ever decide to go 4E this is the route that I'm taking. It's one that makes perfect sense to me as a consumer now. Especially after spending thousands of dollars on RPG materials over the past 8 years or so. I know that the RPG companies want us to spend! spend! spend! but that's not in the cards this time around. Even with companies I absolutely love (Paizo, Necromancer, Goodman Games, etc...) I'm going to have to hold off on supporting them if I ever go 4E.

 

[Hussar]

Not really. People keep saying "RPGs provide infinite fun and are, therefore, a good investment!" as a counterpoint to the OP's entry on the thread (heck, you did so) and I'm responding to that assertion by pointing out that it's based on three faulty assumptions. In that light, it's more a myth than any kind of factual statement. If it isn't topical, people need to quit offfering it up as a counterpoint to the opening post.

Even if somebody only focuses on buying things for one or two RPGs, this by no means guarantees them time or players, nor does it lessen the replay value of other entertainment mediums. It doesn't change anything. The assertion that "RPGs provide infinite entertainment for your money!" is still deeply flawed, whether somebody is investing in dozens of RPGs or just one.

I think you're taking my point much too far actually.

What I said was that RPG's are very, very cheap to play. Not that they are infinite fun. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't say that.

What I said was, compared to pretty much any other hobby, RPG gaming is about as cheap as it gets. On a per hour basis, even on a flat basis, gaming is a bloody cheap hobby.

Look, going out for dinner and a movie with the wife sets me back about 100 bucks. There, that's my core 3 books right there. Now, even if I never play. Even if I only read those books, I'm pretty sure that it will take me longer than dinner and a movie to do so. Right there, I'm ahead of the game.

Want to go fishing? Try going fishing with a budget of 100 dollars.

Look, if you want to say, "RPG's are only a good investment for your entertainment dollar if you get to play them" I'll agree with that. It's a bit obvious. You could replace RPG with ANY hobby and get the same results. Golf is only a good investment if you actually get to play. Movies are only good investments if you actually get to watch them. I mean, come on, that's not exactly a strong standard.

I think we can assume that anyone who wants to take up a hobby has some free time with which to do that hobby. Any group hobby has exactly the same issues of scheduling as D&D, so, comparing it to, say, watching a movie, isn't really fair either. Let's try to get apples and apples.

In any case, the OP was complaining that RPG's were being priced out of the market. That's utter rubbish. As a hobby, we're very, very cheap. You can spend thousands of dollars, that's true, but, that's also true of any hobby as well. But, by and large, rpg gaming is NOT an expensive hobby.

Heck, how many people play with just the PHB?

 

[pawsplay]

In any case, the OP was complaining that RPG's were being priced out of the market.

Wrong. Totally, completely wrong.

 

[fnwc]

No, but if you're in your 30s and have a full-time job, a family, or other responsibilities that you rank more important than playing games, it can be real PITA finding time or people to play. In which case, it's not a financial burden, but it is a lousy investment.

Fair enough. If the cost of D&D and other RPG games, in general, is not a good investment for you, then that's fair. However, books are priced at what the market will bear and obviously enough people feel that the books are worth the cost.

I'm sure some people feel that $10 a movie is too much, while others don't mind paying that price.

 

[Fifth Element]

You claimed that RPGs don't cost much. I'm saying that there is a reason for that. As I outline in post #115, the myth that RPGs provide entertainment in perpetuity is just that -- a myth. Getting any kind of return on an investment in RPGs depends very much upon certain conditions being met, assuming that you buy games to play them. If those conditions aren't met, your return is non-existent in terms of actual use.

Wait. I thought your original point was that RPGs were quite expensive. Then I argue that they're actually quite inexpensive. Your response is "you get what you pay for"?

RPGs don't have to provide entertainment "in perpetuity" to provide value. That's a strawman. Your internet connection provides value only so long as you pay for it each month. RPGs can provide value for a significant amount of time after the initial investment. If they provide a year's worth of entertainment (much less than an infinite amount of time), for instance, then a $100 investment is actually $8 per month.

I just read your post a little closer. Are you arguing that RPGs don't provide value if you don't play them? That's a given, and irrelevant. An internet connection provides no value if you don't use it either.

Edit: Just reread your OP. So those 9 or 10 hours of RPG fun you mentioned could could you $8 (see above). Less than $1 per hour. Much much less if you only buy the PHB and don't DM. And that assumes you only play for one year. Your could play for 5 years with that one PHB, and get 500+ hours of fun for $35. Not bad. (Yes, yes, assuming you actually play. That's a given.) That's why we say RPGs are an inexpensive hobby. You can spend a lot if you really want to, but you can also play for almost nothing.