I'm running through the woods, what can I do?

[DM-Rocco]

Recently in a game I was a PC in, I was alone and running for my life from a big bear. The DM didn't state what size catagory, but with a four foot wide head and about 15 feet from ground to shoulder, I think it was safe to say he was at least huge.

I activated haste and booked out of there. He managed to keep pace with me, only losing 10 feet of space per round. I have some magic bracers that give me haste for 10 rounds, and then become fatigued. When that happens I have two things I need to do, one, drink a potion that restores my health and vitality as if I rested for a day, and then two, activate the bracers and continue to run like mad.

So, in that time the bear has time to catch up and get in a round of combat. The situation came up where I had just activated the bracers and I wanted move through a square the bear threatened, which would draw an AoO. I tried to tumble, with the -10 for accelerated tumble so I could continue to run at four times speed, but the other players and the DM said you can't do that.

So, the question is, what can you do while running?

Can you do an accelerated tumble? I don't mean a full round of flips and jumps with full run movements, just a quick tumble to avoid an AoO and then a full run? If not, why, cause I don't get it?

What else can you do, I assume jump?

And what does it mean when the rules say 'normal movement?'

 

[Infiniti2000]

Good questions, but unfortunately there are no clear or easy answers. There is debate on the phrase "normal movement", but I'd say most agree to something like the following: "Movement in a mode in which you have a listed speed and take as a Move Action." This jives with similar rules (5ft-step required a speed, Tumble saying it's part of a Move Action, etc.).

The best answer to why you can't combine a Move Action and a Run action in the same round probably has to do with simultaneity. It's the exact same situation as to why you need to withdraw instead of move+cast to avoid an AoO. If you can understand this latter part, then the analogy would be identical to not allowing Move+Run.

(houserule alert)
As for an equitable alternative, a potential house rule could be implemented that would provide Run as a standard action that can be combined with a regular Move Action (but not a 5ft-step of course). Thus, you could sheathe your sword and Run Speedx2. I don't see anything broken by that and it would certainly give you what your character wants.

 

[frankthedm]

So, the question is, what can you do while running?

Nothing. You can't even defend yourself unless you are very good at running[Heroic Feat].

The accelerated tumble allows a person to move at thier hustle speed. Run has a pre requirement of only running for that round. Picture it in your mind how you want to.

Tactical Movement
Use tactical movement for combat. Characters generally don’t walk during combat—they hustle or run. A character who moves his or her speed and takes some action is hustling for about half the round and doing something else the other half.

Movement in Combat
Generally, you can move your speed in a round and still do something (take a move action and a standard action).

If you do nothing but move (that is, if you use both of your actions in a round to move your speed), you can move double your speed.

If you spend the entire round running , you can move quadruple your speed. If you do something that requires a full round you can only take a 5-foot step.


Tumble (Dex; Trained Only; Armor Check Penalty)
You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot.

Check
You can land softly when you fall or tumble past opponents. You can also tumble to entertain an audience (as though using the Perform skill). The DCs for various tasks involving the Tumble skill are given on the table below.

Tumble DC Task
15 Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really is when determining damage.
15 Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you provoke attacks of opportunity normally. Check separately for each opponent you move past, in the order in which you pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie). Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.

Obstructed or otherwise treacherous surfaces, such as natural cavern floors or undergrowth, are tough to tumble through. The DC for any Tumble check made to tumble into such a square is modified as indicated below.

Surface Is… DC Modifier
Tumbling is impossible in a deep bog.

Lightly obstructed (scree, light rubble, shallow bog1, undergrowth) +2
Severely obstructed (natural cavern floor, dense rubble, dense undergrowth) +5
Lightly slippery (wet floor) +2
Severely slippery (ice sheet) +5
Sloped or angled +2

Accelerated Tumbling
You try to tumble past or through enemies more quickly than normal. By accepting a -10 penalty on your Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half your speed.

See also: epic usages of Tumble.

Action
Not applicable. Tumbling is part of movement, so a Tumble check is part of a move action.

 

[MarkB]

So, the question is, what can you do while running?

From the 3.5 SRD:

Run

You can run as a full-round action. (If you do, you do not also get a 5-foot step.) When you run, you can move up to four times your speed in a straight line (or three times your speed if you’re in heavy armor). You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run feat.

You can run for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score, but after that you must make a DC 10 Constitution check to continue running. You must check again each round in which you continue to run, and the DC of this check increases by 1 for each check you have made. When you fail this check, you must stop running. A character who has run to his limit must rest for 1 minute (10 rounds) before running again. During a rest period, a character can move no faster than a normal move action.

You can’t run across difficult terrain or if you can’t see where you’re going.​

So, when using the Run action, you can run in a straight line. That is all. Anything else, you need to take a move action to move your speed, or - as a full-round action - a double move to move twice your speed.

Can you do an accelerated tumble? I don't mean a full round of flips and jumps with full run movements, just a quick tumble to avoid an AoO and then a full run? If not, why, cause I don't get it?

Normally, when tumbling you move at half speed - i.e. if your normal speed is 30 feet, you can move 15 feet as a move action whilst tumbling, or 30 feet as a double move (except that your speed is only halved for the squares you have to tumble through).

Accelerated tumbling allows you to tumble at your normal speed - so with a speed of 30, you can tumble 30 feet as a move action or 60 feet as a double move action. It does not allow you to tumble whilst running, because the only thing you can do when running is move in a straight line, not duck and dodge.

What else can you do, I assume jump?

Technically, that's debatable, since the Jump skill description specifies that it's used as part of a move action, and Running is a full-round action - but I'd say yes.

And what does it mean when the rules say 'normal movement?'

Normal movement is generally any form of movement that you can use as a move action without making a skill check.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Technically, that's debatable, since the Jump skill description specifies that it's used as part of a move action, and Running is a full-round action - but I'd say yes.

If you can take time to jump over an opponent, why can't you take a brief second to tumble real quick and then continue on? If you can jump over you opponent, why can't you do a jumping somersault over him instead?

Normal movement is generally any form of movement that you can use as a move action without making a skill check.

If normal movement is generally any form of movement that you can use as a move action without making a skill check and you can tumble as part of your normal move action, then I still don't get why you can't tumble as part of a run, specially if it is at the begining of the run, not in the full sprint mode.


You guys are doing a good job of explaining it, but the above still makes me think you could squeeze in a tumble.

 

[frankthedm]

Recently in a game I was a PC in, I was alone and running for my life from a big bear. The DM didn't state what size catagory, but with a four foot wide head and about 15 feet from ground to shoulder, I think it was safe to say he was at least huge.

That would be scrawny for gargantuan, huge sounds about right.

Alone in the woods? What class are you? How did you let youself get out there? It does sound like it is your time to die.

 

[SS]

I would drop all of the food you have. If it is an animal, with animal intelligence and that does not work. Try to do what "they" always say make a loud noise. Thunderstone, Alarm, Sound Burst, any of these may work. If not, "they" also say play dead. I'd only use this for a last resort. Do you have a Deity yet? There's no time like the present.

 

[frankthedm]

If you can take time to jump over an opponent, why can't you take a brief second to tumble real quick and then continue on? If you can jump over you opponent, why can't you do a jumping somersault over him instead?

The jumping somersault is your 5 ranks in tumble giving the +2 synergy to jump. The rules for tumble clearly expect you to be rolling along the ground [look at the modifiers...].
Besides if you wanted to go through thier square at normal speed, The DC 25 becomes DC 35. I suppose taking the "practically impossible (-20 penalty)" modifier would be about right to Run while tumbling, but that a house rule.

The idea comes from
You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a -5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.

Running is supposed to take away your dex bonus for the whole round, letting somone tumble when they can't avoid attacks feels plain wrong.

 

[Caliban]

If the size difference is that great, try to head for terrain that will be difficult or impassable for it, but not for you. Duck between trees, through rocks, etc. Force it to go around while you go through, or at least slow down.

Unless you did something to really make it mad, or something made it unnaturally focussed on you, once you are out of sight it should give up the chase.

 

[SS]

Unless you did something to really make it mad, or something made it unnaturally focussed on you, once you are out of sight it should give up the chase.

I fully agree, and if this does not work I know the names quite a few Gods. Which world are you on? Oh sure there are a few deities that should be avoided. The price may be more than it's worth but, most are on the up and up.