Immersion?

[Reynard]

Immersion is when the players say, "remember when you shoved your polearm up the rot-wampster's butt," instead of saying "remember when we were playing D&D and you rolled that nat 20?"

Or it's whenever this guy starts talking:

It occurs to me that one reason I don't like the typical actual play video is that there's zero immersion for me. Not only am I watching a table of "funny" players instead of feeling like I'm in the story, but I'm sitting behind a screen, watching a table of "funny" players. The best ones provide some post-production images, animation, and/or sound effects.

One bonus for actual plays: the players are better at keeping the dice on the table than in-person players.

The more AP I watch, the less it resembles actually playing an RPG.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I ask them what them mean by it because everyone seems to have their own definitions of practically every word these days.

100%.

And even then, if you do ask, you can't be sure.

One thing I've noticed is that what some people describe as "immersive" is the exact opposite of how I would describe it.

More specifically, I feel immersed when I feel like it's me in the game, and if I'm just dictating actions for somebody who is not me, then I'm not immersed. Other people say that are most immersed when they are trying to inhabit somebody who is not them.

And to give an example, referring to another thread going on right now, I do NOT feel immersed if I can't solve a challenge using my own noodle, but instead am rolling dice to see if this character who is not me can solve the challenge. Which is the exact opposite of what I have seen other people write.

Another example would be trolls and fire: if I am pretending to not know to use fire on the trolls then I no longer feel like I am immersed in the game, but instead am narrating actions for a 3rd party.

 

[Bill Zebub]

The other thing I've noticed about the word "immersion" is that it is often used in the context of "when (my pet peeve occurs) it breaks immersion."

Examples are:

• "Somebody talks about their character in 3rd person"
• "A character falls a long way and doesn't die"
• "Characters sleep in their armor"
• "A player uses knowledge their character wouldn't have"
• "A player of a Dwarf speaks with a Scottish accent"
• "A gnome paladin dual-wields rapiers"
• "A halfling is a strong as a half-orc"

And so on. The sources of supposed immersion-breaking are endless.

 

[TiQuinn]

The other thing I've noticed about the word "immersion" is that it is often used in the context of "when (my pet peeve occurs) it breaks immersion."

Examples are:

• "Somebody talks about their character in 3rd person"
• "A character falls a long way and doesn't die"
• "Characters sleep in their armor"
• "A player uses knowledge their character wouldn't have"
• "A player of a Dwarf speaks with a Scottish accent"
• "A gnome paladin dual-wields rapiers"
• "A halfling is a strong as a half-orc"

And so on. The sources of supposed immersion-breaking are endless.

Yeah, this is why for me immersion is something that groups shouldn't worry about actively trying to achieve. IMO, Immersion happens when it happens. I think it's too simplistic to place blame on something, and actually expect that it's something that can be controlled. I think when people point out those things as being immersion breaking, they're talking about their take on verisimilitude, and those two things are different for me.

 

[TwoSix]

More specifically, I feel immersed when I feel like it's me in the game, and if I'm just dictating actions for somebody who is not me, then I'm not immersed. Other people say that are most immersed when they are trying to inhabit somebody who is not them.

This. I think there's a distinct difference between being immersed "in the setting" and immersed "in the character". I find it impossible to feel like I, personally, am "in the game", but I can definitely immerse in the perspective and thought processes of the character I'm playing.

 

[AlexofBarbaria]

I think that immersion is what makes the difference between in character roleplaying games (whichever platform) and tactical games (including video games where you lead an entire party of characters through the dungeon).

When I look up definitions of immersion, I find it commonly separated into 3 types:

• character immersion/emotional "bleed"
• setting immersion/verisimilitude
• tactical immersion/flow

So you don't have any truck with the third one?

I think I agree -- tactical flow is something different and it's a mistake to conflate it with immersion (though I enjoy both).

One way in which they seem different is that in the "getting things done" flow state, time speeds up. In an immersive state, time slows down. Flow seems to be about mental efficiency and focus -- filtering out and ignoring irrelevant details -- while immersion is all about slowing down and savoring the details.

When I'm really immersed in a book, I read more slowly -- sometimes I even dread turning the page. I don't want the scene to end! There's a reason fantasy books are usually doorstoppers. In RPGing I find the exploration "pillar" most immersive: the space between the action scenes.

This also seems to conflict with so-called "narrative immersion", which I've seen defined as "the pull that compels you to find out what happens". I wouldn't call that immersion either -- when I'm most immersed in a story, I almost don't want to find out what happens. My brain resists the pull of the plot. When I'm not immersed is when I feel the urge to fast-forward and just find out what happens already.

 

[AlexofBarbaria]

The other thing I've noticed about the word "immersion" is that it is often used in the context of "when (my pet peeve occurs) it breaks immersion."

If immersion is the kind of thing where it doesn't really work to pursue it directly, but you have to let it grow on its own--as several people have described--it only makes sense to focus on what not to do. The goal is not to build it but to not break the process of it happening.

Which mostly tracks with my experiences...this video has some interesting ideas on what immersion "fertilizer" might consist of though:

I saw a great video recently about immersion. I thought it was worth sharing.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'm trying to think of something witty involving immersion blenders but failing, so I asked ChatGPT to think up a few options. They were all terrible, so I typed "sad trombone". It responded with:

Womp womp wommmmmp.

(…the sound of a failed pun check, DC 12, rolled a natural 1.)

 

[gnarlygninja]

I've been thinking about immersion a lot lately as I get more into Draw Steel, mostly because other people keep bringing it up any time the game parts of the system butt against people's perceptions. It mostly seems when someone says 'this doesn't work the way I think it would work in real life', and much like when this sort of thing came up in 4th edition, I'm landing on the position of "Immersion is nice but your own immersion is your own problem." I don't think any TTRPG can ever be 100% immersive in the way a lot of people seem to mean so I guess I just...don't see much point in worry about it. It'll happen, or it won't.

 

[payn]

I've been thinking about immersion a lot lately as I get more into Draw Steel, mostly because other people keep bringing it up any time the game parts of the system butt against people's perceptions. It mostly seems when someone says 'this doesn't work the way I think it would work in real life', and much like when this sort of thing came up in 4th edition, I'm landing on the position of "Immersion is nice but your own immersion is your own problem." I don't think any TTRPG can ever be 100% immersive in the way a lot of people seem to mean so I guess I just...don't see much point in worry about it. It'll happen, or it won't.

Immersion is such a moving target, though I think you cant completely ignore folks opinions. You also cant let the squeaky wheel drive all the decisions either. Im not sure where that Goldilocks zone is, but I know that if the game doesnt feel right folks abandon ship. So, the idea you can make the perfect game first, and then put a skin on it isnt a winner in of itself.