Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

[zarquin]

Actually, the relationship better be calculated according to falling damage. No external factors disrupting the calculations.

It's the same game mechanic. They are both just based on the VSC system. That says that damage doubles every 2 VSCs and a VSC is defined by an 8-fold weight increase for objects and a 15 point increase to strength for characters.

 

[paradox42]

UK's rules that a 64-fold increase in energy is a doubling of damage. So 2.4*10^32 is equal to 80*64^16.87380089. For simplicity, the damage from a baseball bat was assigned 6 points of damage.
6*2^16.87380089 is 720562.1724 or 720k.

If I use 2.5 instead of 6 I get that a planet has 300k HP.

Omegonian is correct, you used the rule wrong. He used that rule to figure out how his massive materials like Neutronium deal damage if they get somehow turned into weapons and wielded, it was never intended to be a global blanket rule you just plain apply to damage calculations.

Think about it this way: if you double the energy, it's essentially the same thing as if you took the single energy event, and did it twice. What your "derived rule" essentially says, then, is that you need to make 64 strikes to deal the damage of two hits. To me, that's patently absurd.

I maintain that the estimate of 3 x 10^30 hit points is more correct for a planet, unless perhaps you're using severe four-color-comic-book physics and some sort of exponential damage system. D&D does not use an exponential damage system, though; it uses hit points which are brought down one by one (even if a single attack can bring down more than one at a time); the system is as linear as it gets.

 

[zarquin]

Omegonian is correct, you used the rule wrong. He used that rule to figure out how his massive materials like Neutronium deal damage if they get somehow turned into weapons and wielded, it was never intended to be a global blanket rule you just plain apply to damage calculations.

Think about it this way: if you double the energy, it's essentially the same thing as if you took the single energy event, and did it twice. What your "derived rule" essentially says, then, is that you need to make 64 strikes to deal the damage of two hits. To me, that's patently absurd.

I maintain that the estimate of 3 x 10^30 hit points is more correct for a planet, unless perhaps you're using severe four-color-comic-book physics and some sort of exponential damage system. D&D does not use an exponential damage system, though; it uses hit points which are brought down one by one (even if a single attack can bring down more than one at a time); the system is as linear as it gets.

Yes I agree that D&D does not use an exponential damage system, but UK DOES. However, if we want to use straight D&D rules, then the hp of a planet is defined by the hp of an 4000 mile radius ball of stone, which was something like 67 billion trillion damage needed to complete destroy it.

Also, the 80-Joule standard for a baseball bat doesn't work, because falling damage says that every 200 lbs of a object does 1d6 per 10 feet it falls.

A 200 lbs object falling 10 feet is ~2711 Joules and does 1d6 damage. So either this block should do 34d6, or the 80 J standard doesn't work.

The reason for the 64-fold increase in energy to only a doubling of energy, was so that damage takes longer to scale out of control, and presumable after the point where people stop really playing characters, or where the divinity takes precendence.

 

[Omeganian]

There is no known way to make the RPG both balanced and agreeing with physics.

 

[Gothenem]

There is no known way to make the RPG both balanced and agreeing with physics.

Sad, but true!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi paradox42 matey!

Omegonian is correct, you used the rule wrong. He used that rule to figure out how his massive materials like Neutronium deal damage if they get somehow turned into weapons and wielded, it was never intended to be a global blanket rule you just plain apply to damage calculations.

Yes it is!

Think about it this way: if you double the energy, it's essentially the same thing as if you took the single energy event, and did it twice. What your "derived rule" essentially says, then, is that you need to make 64 strikes to deal the damage of two hits. To me, that's patently absurd.

D&D Damage IS patently absurd. A 200 ton dragon falling on you only does 4d8 damage but a 1 ton block of stone falling on you deals 20d6.

A Storm Giant only deals twice as much damage as a human, even though it weighs 64 times as much! The only way that makes sense (by your rules) is if the Storm Giant is moving 1000 times slower than the human!

I maintain that the estimate of 3 x 10^30 hit points is more correct for a planet, unless perhaps you're using severe four-color-comic-book physics and some sort of exponential damage system. D&D does not use an exponential damage system, though; it uses hit points which are brought down one by one (even if a single attack can bring down more than one at a time); the system is as linear as it gets.

Then I suggest you totally rewrite the damages for every monster and weapon in the rules, because they simply don't gel with what you're proposing.

 

[WarDragon]

How many times do I have to say it before it sinks in? You can't apply real-world physics to D&D. It just doesn't work, and was never intended to.

 

[Gothenem]

Well, really!

I am offended. Everyone knows the D&D IS real-world physics....

hehe, D&D is not meant to completely mimic real-world physics. That is why the MAXIMUM falling damage is 20d6.

If you fall from an airplane 30,000 feet in the air and hit the ground, you take 20d6 falling damage. If you jump off a 400 foot cliff, you take 20d6 falling damage. If you fall from a decaying orbit into the atmosphere and fall to the ground, you take 20d6 points of falling damage.

Yeah, real world physics at work here boys and girls.[/sarcasm]

That and the statue/dragon thing...

 

[dante58701]

Real world physics are applicable and should be applied. Anything else is senseless meandering down the path of ignorance. We may as well throw the matter based books out the window, oh...wait...physics dont apply. And if physics dont then neither do the laws of reality. Oh......were in far realm. I knew you were hiding something you pseudonatural wardragon. LOL!!!

 

[WarDragon]

Laugh if you wish, but the point remains; D&D has its own laws of reality and physics, but they are not the same as ours.

Real life matter is made up of, what, 200 and some odd elements? D&D matter is made up of four, with those 200+ substances merely subsets and combinations of them. In real life, creatures age because their cells start replicating incorrectly; D&D creatures age because the positive energy is leaking out of them. Real life animals not only can't fly above a certain size threshold, their bones snap under their own weight. D&D has dragons and giants and rocs (oh my!). And even if the underlying rules were the same, the existence of magic makes them more like vague guidelines that nobody really pays any attention to.