Immune Charm/Fear

[Ahglock]

The was I worked it, is you'd be immune to the additional damage(since it doesn't have a damage type, it's all Fear based). They'd have to be immune to both Fear and Radiant to ignore the whole power.

Basically, is there a damage keyword there? If yes, then everything not attached to the damage keyword is all attached to the Fear Keyword.

Both fear and radiant are keywords, I don't think I'd apply a specific keyword to a portion of the damage when no keyword is used in the description. Though quite frankly due to the sentence structure I think the secondary damage is also radiant damage.

 

[Ahglock]

Not really a bad answer Aghlock. How would you define a Fear effect though? I don't think there is actually a Feared condition is there? Would it basicly come down to fluff text, with something like "target is dazed with Fear"?

Or am I mistaken and there is a Fear condition?

I do not see a fear condition in this. Though dazed in fear would be a cool effect for this power. I think the fear keyword was added just as flavor text since its otherworldy from beyond starpact magic. If the damage specified in it fear damage I'd be fine with the 2nd part being fear damage. "Terror wracks the target as he forces himself forward and takes 1d6+con modifier damage(Fear)" People can die from firght, so I'm totally cool with fear damage given the range of what HP can mean.

Since the damage is either not specified or carried over from the earlier part of the sentence it is either pure radiant damage or both radiant and fear due to the keywords. In the case of it being both, immunity does not help unless you are immune to both.

 

[tiornys]

Since the damage is either not specified or carried over from the earlier part of the sentence it is either pure radiant damage or both radiant and fear due to the keywords. In the case of it being both, immunity does not help unless you are immune to both.

While generally true, you're missing the key to unraveling this power. Radiant is a damage type. Fear is an effect type. When you hit with Dire Radiance, you deal damage. That damage is radiant. A creature resistant to radiant damage will reduce the amount of damage they take. When you hit with Dire Radiance, you also generate an effect which imposes a condition on the creatures future movement. If a creature is immune to fear, it is immune to the condition that Dire Radiance imposes.

No resistances/immunities: Dire Radiance works normally.

Resistant to radiant/no fear immunity: Dire Radiance deals less damage but imposes its condition. If the condition is triggered, it will deal damage again. It's unclear from the power's text whether the additional damage is radiant or untyped. Personally, I would rule untyped, but if radiant the resistance will again apply.

No resistance/immune to fear: Dire Radiance deals damage normally, but does not impose a condition on the creature's movement. If the creature approaches the warlock, it does not take extra damage.

Resistant to radiant/immune to fear: Dire radiance deals less damage, and does not impose a movement condition. Maybe you should try Eldritch Blast ;-)

t~

 

[Ahglock]

While generally true, you're missing the key to unraveling this power. Radiant is a damage type. Fear is an effect type. When you hit with Dire Radiance, you deal damage. That damage is radiant. A creature resistant to radiant damage will reduce the amount of damage they take. When you hit with Dire Radiance, you also generate an effect which imposes a condition on the creatures future movement. If a creature is immune to fear, it is immune to the condition that Dire Radiance imposes.

The problem is, in this power fear does not impose any kind of condition. If negatives for moving closer was a fear effect it should have the (fear) label. It does not. The flavor text even just flat out says the beam is more powerful if the person tries to move closer into it. It seems not fear like but you are trying to fight your way up the river so the current is harder to push forward against then to just stand against.

The only key to unraveling this power is a rewrite.

As is, while it has a fear keyword up top it is not in the effect anywhere. And by the rules a person needs both resistances to resist damage. So if you apply the keywords to the 2nd part of the damage,(when fighting against the stream and moving closer) then its radiant/fear and the person needs both to resist it.

If you say it is untyped since there is no (fear or radiant) in the sentence, then resistance or immunity would not help you in the slightest.

If you say it is still radiant damage since its part of the same sentence with the (radiant) descriptor only radiant resistance helps.

I'm in the its radiant damage camp. The fear keyword is never given an effect in the effects portion of the power, it is mainly there for flavor text due to it being scary starpact magic.

 

[tiornys]

The problem is, in this power fear does not impose any kind of condition. If negatives for moving closer was a fear effect it should have the (fear) label. It does not. The flavor text even just flat out says the beam is more powerful if the person tries to move closer into it. It seems not fear like but you are trying to fight your way up the river so the current is harder to push forward against then to just stand against.

The only key to unraveling this power is a rewrite.

As is, while it has a fear keyword up top it is not in the effect anywhere.

I don't agree. Look through the powers in the PHB. Damage type is consistently represented both in the keyword block and in the hit/effect text. Effect type is consistently represented only in the keyword block. Most powers don't list their effects in a separate "Effect" block; the "Effect" block is reserved for effects that occur regardless of the power hitting or missing.

Some examples of other "fear" effects: Cause Fear, Awe Strike, Lion of Battle, Dread Star, Great Dragon War Cry. None of these powers references the "fear" keyword in their hit texts. Most of these powers don't have effect texts. By your argument, none of these powers have anything to do with fear. By my argument, each of these powers does something other than damage that can be prevented by an immunity to fear. In at least one case (Dread Star), the power creates a "save ends" effect; Halflings would get a bonus to those saves.

Since we have ample precedence for effect keywords not being represented in the hit/effect text, your argument boils down to "I don't think the effect created by Dire Radiance makes sense as a fear effect." That's your interpretation, and as a DM you're entitled to rule that way in your games, but from a strict RAW perspective I believe your interpretation is clearly incorrect.

Personally, I also have no problem with the flavor of Dire Radiance. I damage you, and at the same time inspire such fear in you that if you approach me, your fear physically manifests as more damage. Works for me.

And by the rules a person needs both resistances to resist damage. So if you apply the keywords to the 2nd part of the damage,(when fighting against the stream and moving closer) then its radiant/fear and the person needs both to resist it.

This is true for damage types only. Plenty of effects create damage of multiple types. For example, Soul Scorch deals fire and necrotic damage. A creature targeted by this power needs both fire and necrotic damage to resist it. Page 55 lists all the damage types: Acid, Cold, Fire, Force, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, Psychic, Radiant, and Thunder. Note the absence of Fear.

If you say it is untyped since there is no (fear or radiant) in the sentence, then resistance or immunity would not help you in the slightest.

If you say it is still radiant damage since its part of the same sentence with the (radiant) descriptor only radiant resistance helps.

I argue that it is untyped because no type is listed with it, unlike every other instance of damage I can find in a power with a damage-type keyword. However, it could be argued that it is radiant because it is damage dealt by a power with the radiant keyword. This is unclear RAW.

I'm in the its radiant damage camp. The fear keyword is never given an effect in the effects portion of the power, it is mainly there for flavor text due to it being scary starpact magic.

The fear keyword is never given in the effect (or hit) portion of any power. Once again, by your argument, fear is meaningless. As is charm, illusion, and polymorph. Seems highly unlikely to me.

t~