Implements

[VannATLC]

A non-magical quarterstaff does *not* work as both.

A non-magical [Implement] Quarterstaff works as both.

Identical was perhaps too stronger a modifier. In the hands of a wizard, its a Staff he can activate for a minor arcane shield (Or whatever fluff you use)

There is still no requirement to make it cost more. Hell, the Wizard could spend a round investing the same arcane energy he uses to power Mage Hand, into the staff, therefore adding the Keyword [Implement]

The important part is, if it doesn't have the Keyword, its not an Implement. If a staff has the Keyword [Implement] it is also stated to have the Keyword [Weapon]

 

[Danceofmasks]

You didn't answer the question ..

My nonmagical implement quarterstaff, which originally counts as an implement, has subsequently had a weapon enchantment applied to it.

Does it still count as an implement at all?

 

[VannATLC]

No, it doesn't.

The Enchant Item Ritual grants the totality of the text to the object being enchanted. It effectively overrights anything that was previous... which means a Weapon Enchant would be lacking the Implement Keyword.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Now you're stretching ...

You require a base item to apply the enchantment to.
A staff is a base item. Much like a longbow is a base item.

 

[VannATLC]

You're ignoring what I said.

The base item is ultimately irrelevant. The point is that the ritual overwrites all stats of the base item, with the final stats of the item you are creating.

Which may or may not include the keyword [Implement] depending on the enchantment.

 

[Danceofmasks]

No, you're ignoring what I said.

Since a staff implement has the implement keyword, and the weapon keyword, you're allowed to enchant it as a weapon.

So when I enchant it, I want to enchant it into a staff implement (since it qualifies to be enchanted as a melee weapon) with the weapon enchantment.

 

[VannATLC]

1) It doesn't have the weapon keyword. It acts like it does.

2) Existing statistics, including keywords, are overwritten during enchantment, thus that the entire text of the item matches, exactly, the text of the enchanted item's description.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Ah, now you're making a little more sense.
I was responding to your post earlier about a staff implement also having the weapon keyword.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, I still don't buy it.
Weapons enchantments don't have the weapon keyword except when it specifies 'attack with this weapon' etc.
Vicious weapons have no weapon keyword anywhere, apart from that conveyed by the base item.

Under the wizard's class features, a wizard adds bonuses from a magic staff when using powers with the implement keyword .. it does not say a staff has to have the implement keyword.

Now, the staff implement enchantments are implement enchantments because unless you're trained in implement use, you don't benefit thereby .. but I'm unconvinced that a wizard can't simply pick up any staff and use it to block attacks with.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Weapon enchantments do in fact say "Weapon" under their descriptions, indicating that they can be used with powers that have the Weapon keyword. Same with Implements. You cannot apply weapon enhancement bonuses for powers with the Implement keyword (there are exceptions).

As to whether any old staff can be used to power the Arcane Implement Mastery ability of wizards or whether or not you actually do need a staff that is an implement is a grey area.

However the grey area is not that the ability requires an implement. There is no question about that (you do need an implement)

The grey area is whether or not a mundane staff implement is the same as a mundane weapon quarterstaff in the weapon descriptions.

Personally, I think it is and the name difference is just an error. But a definite answer for this would have to come in a FAQ.

So if in your game Quarterstaff=Staff, then yeah, you can use a +2 Resounding Quarterstaff as an implement. However, the bonus is a weapon enhancement so you cannot apply the bonus to powers that have the implement keyword, but the basic staff is itself still an implement for purposes of the wizard implement mastery ability.