greyhawkrr
First Post
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere, sometime before. Please forgive me if that place was on this board and that time was recently. I wished to see if I could create an NPC of the same challenge rating (7) as an arrow demon who was more or less just as effective in every aspect. Here is what I came up with.
Jim Archer, Male Human Pal1/Ftr4/Obi2: CR 7; Medium Humanoid; HD 1d10+9 plus 4d10+36 plus 2d8+18; hp 135; Init +4; Spd 40; AC 19 touch 14, flat-footed 15; Base Atk +7; Grp +12; Atk +13/+8 ranged (1d10+8/x3, +1 composite greatbow [+5 Str bonus]); Full Atk +13/+8 ranged (1d10+8/x3, +1 composite greatbow [+5 Str bonus]); SA close combat shot, ranged precision +1d8, smite evil; SQ detect evil; AL LG; SV Fort +15, Ref +8, Will +7; Str 21, Dex 19, Con 29, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 12.
Skills and Feats: Climb +15, Craft (Bowmaking) +7, Handle Animal +9, Jump +21, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Ride +12, Sense Motive +7, Spot +5, Swim +7; Exotic Weapon Proficiency (greatbow), Improved Toughness, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (greatbow), Weapon Specialization (greatbow).
Possessions: +1 composite greatbow (+5 Str bonus), 20 arrows, +1 mithral chain shirt of spell resistance 17, fire resistance, acid resistance, cold resistance, and greater electricity resistance, boots of striding and springing, amulet of health +6, belt of giant strength +4, helm of telepathy, cape of the mountebank, goggles of the night.
First of all, let me discuss the bonuses this character has that the arrow demon doesn't.
1) Greater range. 130 ft. versus 110 ft.
2) Better Craft (bowmaking) [+5 versus +0 accounting for penalty without tools], Handle Animal [+9 versus +1], Knowledge (religion) [+6 versus +2], Ride [+12 versus +4] and Swim [+7 versus +5] skill.
3) Ranged precision. The Order of the Bow Initiate first level ability gives this character +1d8 to damage on targets within 30 ft. if he uses a standard action. This is only an advantage in the loosest sense of the word since the arrow demon may make two attacks with a standard action and the damage from one of his bowshot's is better than +1d8.
4) He can't be banished or dismissed if he is fighting on the Material Plane.
5) Smite evil. Once per day he gets +1 to hit and +1 to damage with a melee attack. [sarcasm]How wonderfully useful[/sarcasm].
6) Detect evil. He can detect evil, at will, as per the spell.
Second of all, let me discuss where they are equal.
1) Hit points. However note that in order to get that many hit points the human archer rolled max on all hit point rolls but his last one, on which he rolled a '7,' one point shy of maximum for Order of the Bow Initiate.
2) Initiative modifier.
3) Speed.
4) Armor Class (including touch and flat-footed).
5) Damage per hit (each does average of 13.5).
6) Close combat shot. Both can use their bows while in melee without penalty (note the arrow demon is better, explained below).
7) Ability scores (however note that the human archer began with Str 17, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 16, and Cha 12 and required a +5 inherent bonus to Con while the arrow demon has average scores for his race).
8) Energy resistance.
9) Darkvision.
10) Telepathy.
11) Languages. However the human speaks Common instead of one of the arrow demon's languages.
Finally, let me discuss what the arrow demon has that the other character doesn't.
1) More hit dice. 10 versus 7 (for effects based on hit dice).
2) Base attack. +10 versus +7.
3) Grapple. +15 versus +12.
4) Number of attacks. 2 on a standard action, 4 on a full attack (not counting rapid shot).
5) Attack bonus. +16 (+14 if taking two attacks) versus +13.
6) Natural claw attack. 1d6+5 versus 1d3+5 nonlethal (which also provokes an attack of opportunity).
7) Better close combat shot. The arrow demon threatens with his bow while the other character does not.
8) Dimension door. At will versus 1/day.
9) Summon tanar'ri. 35% chance versus 0%.
10) Damage reduction. 5/cold iron and good versus none.
11) Electricity immunity. Immunity versus resistance 30.
12) Spell resistance. 18 versus 17.
13) Saving throws. +16/+11/+10 versus +15/+8/+7.
14) Balance [+17 versus +4], Bluff [+14 verus +1], Climb [+18 versus +15], Concentration [+21 versus +9], Hide [+17 versus +4], Jump [+22 versus +21], Listen [+16 versus +3], Move Silently +17 versus +4], Sense Motive +16 versus +7], and Spot [+16 versus +5]
15) Can't be banished or dismissed on the Abyss.
I'm going to have to say that the demon is preferable in all situations with the possible exception of when fighting on the Material Plane against clerics. Is that really enough of a drawback to account for a CR of 7? There is one spell available to 7th-level clerics that could potentially end this battle with a single casting: dismissal. In that event, let's assume an average cleric with an 18 Wisdom. That makes the DC 15 (18+10-7), which the demon will pass 80% of the time. Even if we assume the cleric has Spell Penetration, the spell still fizzles against SR 40% of the time, meaning the spell is only going to work 16% of the time, not odds I'd like to count on. I know for a fact if I made my PCs fight this archer at level 7 they'd go ballistic if I told them they should be able to defeat this encounter with only 10% of their resources, and it's not even as difficult as the arrow demon! Not to mention he's equipped like a 20th-level character as opposed to the 7,200 gp worth of equipment the DMG suggests he have. I'm sure any player will agree with me.
Jim Archer, Male Human Pal1/Ftr4/Obi2: CR 7; Medium Humanoid; HD 1d10+9 plus 4d10+36 plus 2d8+18; hp 135; Init +4; Spd 40; AC 19 touch 14, flat-footed 15; Base Atk +7; Grp +12; Atk +13/+8 ranged (1d10+8/x3, +1 composite greatbow [+5 Str bonus]); Full Atk +13/+8 ranged (1d10+8/x3, +1 composite greatbow [+5 Str bonus]); SA close combat shot, ranged precision +1d8, smite evil; SQ detect evil; AL LG; SV Fort +15, Ref +8, Will +7; Str 21, Dex 19, Con 29, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 12.
Skills and Feats: Climb +15, Craft (Bowmaking) +7, Handle Animal +9, Jump +21, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Ride +12, Sense Motive +7, Spot +5, Swim +7; Exotic Weapon Proficiency (greatbow), Improved Toughness, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (greatbow), Weapon Specialization (greatbow).
Possessions: +1 composite greatbow (+5 Str bonus), 20 arrows, +1 mithral chain shirt of spell resistance 17, fire resistance, acid resistance, cold resistance, and greater electricity resistance, boots of striding and springing, amulet of health +6, belt of giant strength +4, helm of telepathy, cape of the mountebank, goggles of the night.
First of all, let me discuss the bonuses this character has that the arrow demon doesn't.
1) Greater range. 130 ft. versus 110 ft.
2) Better Craft (bowmaking) [+5 versus +0 accounting for penalty without tools], Handle Animal [+9 versus +1], Knowledge (religion) [+6 versus +2], Ride [+12 versus +4] and Swim [+7 versus +5] skill.
3) Ranged precision. The Order of the Bow Initiate first level ability gives this character +1d8 to damage on targets within 30 ft. if he uses a standard action. This is only an advantage in the loosest sense of the word since the arrow demon may make two attacks with a standard action and the damage from one of his bowshot's is better than +1d8.
4) He can't be banished or dismissed if he is fighting on the Material Plane.
5) Smite evil. Once per day he gets +1 to hit and +1 to damage with a melee attack. [sarcasm]How wonderfully useful[/sarcasm].
6) Detect evil. He can detect evil, at will, as per the spell.
Second of all, let me discuss where they are equal.
1) Hit points. However note that in order to get that many hit points the human archer rolled max on all hit point rolls but his last one, on which he rolled a '7,' one point shy of maximum for Order of the Bow Initiate.
2) Initiative modifier.
3) Speed.
4) Armor Class (including touch and flat-footed).
5) Damage per hit (each does average of 13.5).
6) Close combat shot. Both can use their bows while in melee without penalty (note the arrow demon is better, explained below).
7) Ability scores (however note that the human archer began with Str 17, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 16, and Cha 12 and required a +5 inherent bonus to Con while the arrow demon has average scores for his race).
8) Energy resistance.
9) Darkvision.
10) Telepathy.
11) Languages. However the human speaks Common instead of one of the arrow demon's languages.
Finally, let me discuss what the arrow demon has that the other character doesn't.
1) More hit dice. 10 versus 7 (for effects based on hit dice).
2) Base attack. +10 versus +7.
3) Grapple. +15 versus +12.
4) Number of attacks. 2 on a standard action, 4 on a full attack (not counting rapid shot).
5) Attack bonus. +16 (+14 if taking two attacks) versus +13.
6) Natural claw attack. 1d6+5 versus 1d3+5 nonlethal (which also provokes an attack of opportunity).
7) Better close combat shot. The arrow demon threatens with his bow while the other character does not.
8) Dimension door. At will versus 1/day.
9) Summon tanar'ri. 35% chance versus 0%.
10) Damage reduction. 5/cold iron and good versus none.
11) Electricity immunity. Immunity versus resistance 30.
12) Spell resistance. 18 versus 17.
13) Saving throws. +16/+11/+10 versus +15/+8/+7.
14) Balance [+17 versus +4], Bluff [+14 verus +1], Climb [+18 versus +15], Concentration [+21 versus +9], Hide [+17 versus +4], Jump [+22 versus +21], Listen [+16 versus +3], Move Silently +17 versus +4], Sense Motive +16 versus +7], and Spot [+16 versus +5]
15) Can't be banished or dismissed on the Abyss.
I'm going to have to say that the demon is preferable in all situations with the possible exception of when fighting on the Material Plane against clerics. Is that really enough of a drawback to account for a CR of 7? There is one spell available to 7th-level clerics that could potentially end this battle with a single casting: dismissal. In that event, let's assume an average cleric with an 18 Wisdom. That makes the DC 15 (18+10-7), which the demon will pass 80% of the time. Even if we assume the cleric has Spell Penetration, the spell still fizzles against SR 40% of the time, meaning the spell is only going to work 16% of the time, not odds I'd like to count on. I know for a fact if I made my PCs fight this archer at level 7 they'd go ballistic if I told them they should be able to defeat this encounter with only 10% of their resources, and it's not even as difficult as the arrow demon! Not to mention he's equipped like a 20th-level character as opposed to the 7,200 gp worth of equipment the DMG suggests he have. I'm sure any player will agree with me.
