Improved Precise Shot

Zogg · Jun 11, 2003

Well, all I know is that if that feat really exists, my cleric is going to start memorizing wind wall/

Elder-Basilisk · Jun 12, 2003

Why? This is really one of the least unadulterated 3.5e PC boosts out there. For NPCs, all this will do is eliminate the (largely irrelevant) +4 cover bonus that they incur for firing past their allies (which if they're anything like the PC archers I've played is relevant 1 round out of 3). PCs only very very rarely end up with cover bonusses from anything other than shield (which won't be a cover bonus in 3.5) and other people in the way. IME, it was usually the NPCs who would fire from behind arrow slits or rock walls not the PCs.

Zogg said:
Well, all I know is that if that feat really exists, my cleric is going to start memorizing wind wall/

Ravellion · Jun 12, 2003

Elder-Basilisk said:
Why? This is really one of the least unadulterated 3.5e PC boosts out there. For NPCs, all this will do is eliminate the (largely irrelevant) +4 cover bonus that they incur for firing past their allies (which if they're anything like the PC archers I've played is relevant 1 round out of 3). PCs only very very rarely end up with cover bonusses from anything other than shield (which won't be a cover bonus in 3.5) and other people in the way. IME, it was usually the NPCs who would fire from behind arrow slits or rock walls not the PCs.

Perhpas he is the DM and has a cleric archnemesis?

I agree that this feat is not so much overly powerful but flawed in design, but we have very little to go on at the moment.

What's next, Penetrating Shot ignoring all Natural Armour bonusses?

Sharp Shooting wasn't very good, but at least it wasn't poorly designed.

hong · Jun 12, 2003

Ravellion said:
What's next, Penetrating Shot ignoring all Natural Armour bonusses?

Fell Shot, PsiHB.

hong · Jun 12, 2003

DonAdam said:
My main problem is that it makes standing behind a twig and standing behind an arrow slit identical.

Which makes perfect sense to me, if you're talking about a suitably high-level game.

Reducing cover is fine, but eliminating it altogether just destroys any remote sense of versimilitude.

Only people of higher than 10th level are likely to take this feat. Once you get to those levels, verisimilitude does not mean what you think it means. Adjust your paradigm, or stick to low levels.

Clefton Twain · Jun 12, 2003

Vs. Uncanny Accuracy

Let's not forget how this little gem duplicates an EPIC feat, making it worthless. So you can do something that is epic, waaay before you actually *are* epic...Not only that, but Improved Precise Shot is actually *better* than Uncanny Accuracy. Here's the comparison:

Uncanny Accuracy [Epic]
You can ignore anything less than total cover or concealment when using ranged weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 21, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Spot 20 ranks.
Benefit: When throwing or shooting a ranged weapon, you can ignore any cover bonus to the target's AC (up to a maximum of nine-tenths cover) or any miss chance conferred by the target's concealment (up to a maximum of nine-tenths concealment). If the target has total concealment or total cover, the AC bonus or miss chance applies normally.
Source: Epic Level Handbook, p. 68

Improved Precise Shot: Your attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment... In addition, when you shoot or throw ranged weapons at a grappling opponent, you automatically strike at the opponent you have chosen."

--CT

hong · Jun 12, 2003

Re: Vs. Uncanny Accuracy

Clefton Twain said:
Let's not forget how this little gem duplicates an EPIC feat, making it worthless. So you can do something that is epic, waaay before you actually *are* epic...Not only that, but Improved Precise Shot is actually *better* than Uncanny Accuracy.

Big whoop. So much of the ELH is plain epic garbage that it's hard to take any reference to it seriously. Since we're talking about feats, have a look at Legendary Leaper, for instance.

Clefton Twain · Jun 12, 2003

Re: Re: Vs. Uncanny Accuracy

hong said:
Big whoop. So much of the ELH is plain epic garbage that it's hard to take any reference to it seriously. Since we're talking about feats, have a look at Legendary Leaper, for instance.

So, by your opinion, if the ELH is garbage, doesn't it seem that it's garbage to make a non-epic feat that does what an epic (a.k.a. "garbage") feat does, thereby being quite unbalanced?

--CT

hong · Jun 12, 2003

Re: Re: Re: Vs. Uncanny Accuracy

Clefton Twain said:
So, by your opinion, if the ELH is garbage, doesn't it seem that it's garbage to make a non-epic feat that does what an epic (a.k.a. "garbage") feat does, thereby being quite unbalanced?

I troll better than you. Please to TROLL BETTER in the future, or be laughed at by trolls everywhere. ThaADVANCEnks!

The point is that saying "X is an epic feat, therefore X doesn't belong in a non-epic game" is a stupid argument, because the epic stuff is all over the place. Some of it is literally useless (like the aforementioned Legendary Leaper). Some of it is just broken, no matter what level you're at. Just because it's epic doesn't mean you're allowed to switch off your brain.

Hong "because that's MY schtick" Ooi

Happiest_Sadist · Jun 12, 2003

Ok. Think about it. For those of you who are arguing realism. An equivalent amount of realism would be:

Perfect Called Shot:
Ignore all armor and bonuses from a target, as you always shoot them in the most vulnerable place.

If you can just ignore the part of them behind an wall without reduced accuracy, why can't you just ignore the part of them not covered by an open face helm.

The only reason between the two is that Perfect Called Shot would apply in every game, whereas IPS only applies in games where tactics are used, pushing them into mindless hack and slash.