Improving "slowed"

[keterys]

I'm wondering at the possible pitfalls of improving the slowed condition by adding "and the target cannot shift".

I figure I can test it out a little with some monsters by just adding that, and I could have a feat to add that to ray of frost, but before I do too much. It break anything? I've felt that slowed is just so rarely a real performer ability unless you just happen to not have melee wanting to be involved, get the drop on something, have a wall of fire or similar impediment, etc. Too dependent and completely meaningless on enemies near melee.

 

[Minigiant]

I find slowed to be fine. Slowed keeps the target from going from Point A to Point B quickly. Adding "cannot shift" won't do much because if it was going to shift while slowed, it probably was not going anywhere. Ray of frost has been pretty good at keeping enemy away from the shooter.

It won't break anything 'cept kobolds. But it's unneccesary to me.

 

[Stalker0]

My group uses the idea that slowed means 2 squares max, not 2 squares per move, and that has worked well. The nonshift thing could be pretty powerful way to go, might be worth it.

 

[keterys]

Slowed currently I find only really useful for hitting targets at near max range that no one is near and no one wants to be near (which is a pretty rare occurence, or at the very start of the combat and involves the wizard getting painfully close to the front line) - when used against PCs which is rare, I'll admit, it's similarly pretty useless. Not completely, mind you, but pretty.

The shift prevention would make it relevant for the greater bulk of the combat for making it more than a non-event once melee is within a few squares. I'll admit slow is useful for keeping skirmish types off your backline, but only for a limited sense and far less than other methods and this wouldn't change that situation much.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

For the longest time, I thought the slowed condidition already prevented shifting...

It certainly made slowing an enemy that's already in melee with you or your allies...

 

[Brain]

I'm wondering at the possible pitfalls of improving the slowed condition by adding "and the target cannot shift".

I figure I can test it out a little with some monsters by just adding that, and I could have a feat to add that to ray of frost, but before I do too much. It break anything? I've felt that slowed is just so rarely a real performer ability unless you just happen to not have melee wanting to be involved, get the drop on something, have a wall of fire or similar impediment, etc. Too dependent and completely meaningless on enemies near melee.

We also play with slow = 2 squares total for your turn. I see slow as a decent condition. There is a lot of movement in 4E and only being able to go 2 squares is pretty good, especially for keeping enemies from fleeing.

One power that would be slightly marginalized by your change would be Steel Serpent Strike, a fighter 1 encounter power that slows and makes it so the target cannot shift.

 

[Plane Sailing]

My group uses the idea that slowed means 2 squares max, not 2 squares per move, and that has worked well.

Mine too.

Slow has proved useful for disengaging. In the fight against IronTooth it was the wizard that eventually killed him with Ray of Frost, because he could keep out of IronTooths reach and keep slowing him.

(I wouldn't be surprised if anyone that treated slowed as 2 squares per move finds it weak and ineffective, FWIW)

Cheers

 

[Mengu]

I'd instead say slowed creatures can't charge or run. I think that covers all the shenanigans that allow people to effectively ignore the slowed condition. Disallowing shift nerfs too many abilities, so I'd shy away from that option.

As an at-will power, Ray of Frost needs to do something a little more than slowed though. Otherwise it's useful maybe once per encounter, and you may as well pick an encounter power to do that. Ray of frost could perhaps lower the target's Reflex by 2, in addition to slowing them. This would make it a more interesting debuff, helpful to both the wizard and his reflex targeting allies such as a warlock.

 

[Rechan]

Honestly, there are quite a few monsters that definitely get snookered if you Slow them. If they have any sort of 'Move up to x squares, make y attacks when you go'. Or anything with skirmish (like the Goblin warrior, moving several squares allows it to do more damage).

Essentially, if it's a skirmisher and it doesn't move around fast because it's shifting a lot or it's teleporting, then Slow will but the kibosh on its shenanigans.

I've also seen Slow put to good use on a flying creature. Party were engaging a harpy spellcaster; it was going to fly to a ledge, gain cover, avoid melee - and it was slowed, unable to get to the other side of the battlefield.

 

[Roger]

I'm not sure if the idea in general is a good one or not, but I had a thought about how else you could achieve a similar effect:

Slowed: The affected creature treats all terrain as difficult.



Cheers,
Roger