Sanguinemetaldawn
First Post
From the front page...
"This has always been true to some degree; even back in 1st Edition, just about *every* campaign every DM ran assumed that Corellon Larethian put out Gruumsh's eye..."
Eh? What?
As a 1st Ed player, that would have been news to me...
"His name is never spoken by non-shaman orcs, who refer to him as he-Who-Watches or He-Who-Never-Sleeps. Gruumsh's symbol is a great unwinking eye, which represents the belief that Gruumsh watches each and every orc and judges him fit or unfit. Gruumsh himself has but one large eye in the center of his forehead.
...
To become a shaman of Gruumsh, an orc must pluck out his own left eye."
...and no reference to Corellon shooting anyone's eye, or stealing it or anything else.
Deities and Demigods 1st Ed.
and
"Shamans tell of the battle between Corellon Larethian (the chief elven god) and Gruumsh, in which Corellon tried to shoot out Gruumsh’s eye (sacrilege!) with his bow, but failed of course..."
Unearthed Arcana 1st Ed., page 119 (and Dragon magazine 62)
From what I can tell the "lost his left eye" comes from 2E Monster Mythology. If Carl Sargeant wants to re-write D&D the way he feels like, its no big deal, though Gruumsh's right eye "migrating" to the middle of his head is a pretty lame ret-con.
I'm not sure why the title statement is so jarring...
Monster Mythology didn't come out until 1992. 1st Ed. Deities came out around 1980/81. So no 1st Ed. gamers "assumed that Corellon Larethian put out Gruumsh's eye", because that story wasn't around at all during 1st. Next, some 2nd Ed. gamers didn't think that either, because 2E was around for years before Sargeant's MM was released.
So hearing that makes me think "Is he pretending to be a 1st Ed. gamer when he clearly isn't? If so, why?
Does really know the history of the game?"
Really my unease comes from a worry that these guys just don't know the game itself very well...
Its not so much about breaking traditions/D&D history/canon.
Its more a sense of...I want the writers/designers to know the traditions so they can break them properly.
...
I just realized what it is. That statement is a window into how these designers think.
It sounds like they think 1st Ed. is classical history or something, like using a telegraph to send messages. They feel comfortable making these wildly inaccurate generalizations offhand, because 1st Ed. players, like dinosaurs and trilobites, don't exist anymore.
Wow. That statement and what it implies, more than all the weirdness of 4E from designer weblogs, tells me what WotC really thinks of me as a customer.
"This has always been true to some degree; even back in 1st Edition, just about *every* campaign every DM ran assumed that Corellon Larethian put out Gruumsh's eye..."
Eh? What?
As a 1st Ed player, that would have been news to me...
"His name is never spoken by non-shaman orcs, who refer to him as he-Who-Watches or He-Who-Never-Sleeps. Gruumsh's symbol is a great unwinking eye, which represents the belief that Gruumsh watches each and every orc and judges him fit or unfit. Gruumsh himself has but one large eye in the center of his forehead.
...
To become a shaman of Gruumsh, an orc must pluck out his own left eye."
...and no reference to Corellon shooting anyone's eye, or stealing it or anything else.
Deities and Demigods 1st Ed.
and
"Shamans tell of the battle between Corellon Larethian (the chief elven god) and Gruumsh, in which Corellon tried to shoot out Gruumsh’s eye (sacrilege!) with his bow, but failed of course..."
Unearthed Arcana 1st Ed., page 119 (and Dragon magazine 62)
From what I can tell the "lost his left eye" comes from 2E Monster Mythology. If Carl Sargeant wants to re-write D&D the way he feels like, its no big deal, though Gruumsh's right eye "migrating" to the middle of his head is a pretty lame ret-con.
I'm not sure why the title statement is so jarring...
Monster Mythology didn't come out until 1992. 1st Ed. Deities came out around 1980/81. So no 1st Ed. gamers "assumed that Corellon Larethian put out Gruumsh's eye", because that story wasn't around at all during 1st. Next, some 2nd Ed. gamers didn't think that either, because 2E was around for years before Sargeant's MM was released.
So hearing that makes me think "Is he pretending to be a 1st Ed. gamer when he clearly isn't? If so, why?
Does really know the history of the game?"
Really my unease comes from a worry that these guys just don't know the game itself very well...
Its not so much about breaking traditions/D&D history/canon.
Its more a sense of...I want the writers/designers to know the traditions so they can break them properly.
...
I just realized what it is. That statement is a window into how these designers think.
It sounds like they think 1st Ed. is classical history or something, like using a telegraph to send messages. They feel comfortable making these wildly inaccurate generalizations offhand, because 1st Ed. players, like dinosaurs and trilobites, don't exist anymore.
Wow. That statement and what it implies, more than all the weirdness of 4E from designer weblogs, tells me what WotC really thinks of me as a customer.
)
