In contrast to the GSL, Ryan Dancey on OGL/D20 in WotC archives

[Belen]

In any event, under the OGL, everyone and anyone can be a publisher, and therefore can take on decision making capabilities. Under the GSL, this isn't true.

Agreed. The GSL stinks. I do not like it. I do not think it serves the community very well for everyone to attempt to be a publisher though and lock their ideas behind a dollar sign.

 

[Raven Crowking]

ENWorld has the trophy for flamefests. You rarely see them on Circvs outside the politics forum. The community itself tends to self-moderate.

That's very, very funny.

Either you're really deceiving yourself on both counts, or you're being intentionally ironic.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Agreed. The GSL stinks. I do not like it.

There we agree completely.

I do not think it serves the community very well for everyone to attempt to be a publisher though and lock their ideas behind a dollar sign.

You keep saying this, despite the fact that the amount of OGC in publications has actually increased rather than decreased over the couse of the OGL. You pay for an initial sourcebook to use, yes, but many sourcebooks are now entirely (or nearly so) OGC. See Pathfinder, Green Ronin, Bastion Press, Necromancer Games, etc.

Right now the only major CGC companies are who....? WotC and Monte Cook's company?

What exactly are you complaining about?

RC

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Watch as I do that right here.

-- N

"You must spread some reputation around before..."

 

[Farmer42]

Right now the only major CGC companies are who....? WotC and Monte Cook's company?

Well, there's also SJ Games, HERO Games, and White Wolf. The S&S stuff is still proprietary, even if it uses OGC as its basis.

 

[Belen]

Watch as I do that right here.

-- N

:win:

 

[pawsplay]

And there's no one to prevent discussions from degenerating into pure flamewars.

To have a true flamewar, it is not sufficient to have two people who wish to post aggressively. You must have two people who feel injured enough to escalate an aggressive discussion. I suspect trying to be a troll at Circvs would be an experience of emotional exhaustion.

 

[Zogmo]

After reading ENworld posts here for many years I can safely say (IMHO) that the reason the original OGL didn't get a community to support and make it grow as originally envisioned and become it's own beast was that there are so many people who play with so many different visions of what's best it's no wonder a community based SRD never appeared. As passionate as the community is about the game it's this passion that made it just too difficult to focus all that intense "ownership of the game" on something like a wiki for it to actually be functional or useful. All the tools are there for the community to make it's own SRD but nobody stepped up to spearhead the effort. All the passion is there but no consensus from the community as to what it should be or do.

There is no way possible for WotC to do this spearheading, sponsorship or whatever people think WotC could have done. Any time they stepped in to do something to the "Fanbase SRD Wiki" it would be derided for interfering.

If WotC printed a collection of house rules they collected for free from the internet and sold it for money there would be "heads a splodin'" like never before at them for doing that. It would never be seen as them trying to get the community focused to improve or kick-start the OGL community.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

In any event, under the OGL, everyone and anyone can be a publisher, and therefore can take on decision making capabilities. Under the GSL, this isn't true.

You are actually correct to some extent. Because of the GSL, not everyone can publish D&D 4E products.

But of course, standard copyright law makes such a restriction the default. The GSL just accepts this default and gives an option for anyone to become a publisher of D&D 4E products as long as they meet certain restrictions (restrictions that include the right of refusal by WOTC).

But this (along with the obvious economic requirements) does not prevent anyone from becoming a publisher of something else, including other RPG systems.

Of course, anyone can publish critiques of D&D 4E products, critiques which may include perceived rules improvements. Again, copyright law limits the format in which these critiques may be presented.

I, however, urge people upset with companies attempting to make a legal profit through the use of intellectual property to consider alternative means of economic reward for intellectual property. Under such circumstances, laws change, business models change, and what one can and cannot publish changes.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Well, there's also SJ Games, HERO Games, and White Wolf. The S&S stuff is still proprietary, even if it uses OGC as its basis.

Which is good reason, perhaps, to avoid products of those specific companies if you support open gaming, but not a good reason to throw out the baby with the bath water and toss out the OGL!

You are actually correct to some extent. Because of the GSL, not everyone can publish D&D 4E products.

But of course, standard copyright law makes such a restriction the default.

A fact irrelevant to the discussion, IMHO, because the OGL changed the standard in relation to D&D. Moreover, when you look at the draconian hoops WotC is jumping through to "undo" the OGL with the GSL, it seems quite clear to me that the people who wrote the OGL predicted this move, and attempted to prevent it as far as possible.

For the OGL, if for nothing else, I have to support the WotC team of that day. (On top of that, I quite like much of the game they produced.) For the GSL, if for nothing else, I have to avoid WotC products now. I vote with my wallet, and my vote does not go GSL.


RC